cultures moderation tips for keris lovers

sigit subagio · 15th October 2005, 03:33 AM

Pak Purwa, Sigit will please to ask Pak Purwa to tell what means it:-

Ing ngarso sing tuladha ing madya mbangun karsa tut wuri handayani.

Sigit very ashame and embaras because to ask this because Sigit Jawa pribumi and from Jember and parent from Matesih but Sigit no can Krama Inggil and already to ask to other people much and they not can understand also.

Please Pak Purwa can to write this with ngoko or with Bahasa Indonesia.

Please Pak Purwa no to write the filsafat however to write the word with ngoko or Bahasa Indonesia.

Please to forgive Sigit for stupid and for no good education because Sigit to cause Pak Purwa very much problem and difficult.

Sigit say one thousand time thank you to Pak Purwa for Pak Purwa understand and help.

My respect

Sigit.

ariel · 16th October 2005, 04:08 AM

I am usually trying to stay away from the Kris issues: it is far too complicated and specialized area of weaponry and I know far too little about it to utter anything intelligent.
But what we are talking about here is not tangible aspects of an intricately and beautifully shaped piece of metal (blade)and some organic material on top (handle), but some mystical and supernatural things.

Yes, I know, we are supposed to be sensitive to other peoples' beliefs but the last time I looked outside, it still was 21st century. We can and should learn cultural aspects of the weapons we collect including the local lore, but out of curiosity: does anybody around here seriously and rationally believe in "esoteric properties' and "mystical powers" of this lovely weapon?
If the answer is in the positive, I'll be requesting an application form for the Flat Earth Society.

Kiai Carita · 16th October 2005, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sigit subagio

Pak Purwa, Sigit will please to ask Pak Purwa to tell what means it:-Ing ngarso sing tuladha ing madya mbangun karsa tut wuri handayani.
.

Happy Ramadhan to you who are fasting,
and salaams to all,

Sorry to interupt the discussion but as we wait for Pak Purwa I think that I might be able to support the respected members of this discussion who hold the opinion that a gurindam is a form of Malay literature and a type of pantun. In traditional Jawa the term gurindam is not used. Traditional Malay poetry follows a strict form and the umbrella term pantun is used to describe the verses. Often the first two lines are merely opening rhymes for the last two lines:

Berburu ke padang datar
Mendapat rusa belang kaki
Berguru kepalang ajar
Bagai bunga kembang tak jadi

Hunt in the flat grass-land
Get a stag with speckled feet
Study unwhole-heartedly
Like a flower failing to bloom.

Yoni in keris terms was indeed introduced by the Solo Prince. I believe it is a confusing term and was accepted because it seemed right and was introduced by a Prince. If you must use the term yoni it should refer to th ganja, the lingga the wilah. However after walisanga Islamized keris these terms were no longer used in Jawa. Yoni was introduced by the Solo Prince to refer to the esoteric properties of the keris in a seminar in the 1980's and it is documented in EK Harsrinuksmo.

Ing ngarso sun (not sing) tulada, ing madya mangun karsa, tut wuri handayani...

Is also a modern Jawa motto. It was thought up by Ki Hadjar Dewantara as the motto for teachers in Taman Siswa schools. Ki Hadjar himself was educated in Europe in around WWI and worked as a teacher in a Montessori school and was familiar with Steiner too. He came back to Indonesia to become the father of modern Indonesian education. A pity many of his principles are no longer followed. The motto means: In front I lead, in the midst I motivate, from behind I energise.

I also disagree that most Indonesians buy keris for their esoteric properties. I collect keris for their individual merit, the beauty and the workmanship, and the story the individual keris inherently brings with it as an artefact and this is what I learned from my father and his friends so has been going on for generations.

Warmest salaams to all,

KC

15th October 2005, 03:33 AM	#1
sigit subagio Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 2	Pak Purwa, Sigit will please to ask Pak Purwa to tell what means it:- Ing ngarso sing tuladha ing madya mbangun karsa tut wuri handayani. Sigit very ashame and embaras because to ask this because Sigit Jawa pribumi and from Jember and parent from Matesih but Sigit no can Krama Inggil and already to ask to other people much and they not can understand also. Please Pak Purwa can to write this with ngoko or with Bahasa Indonesia. Please Pak Purwa no to write the filsafat however to write the word with ngoko or Bahasa Indonesia. Please to forgive Sigit for stupid and for no good education because Sigit to cause Pak Purwa very much problem and difficult. Sigit say one thousand time thank you to Pak Purwa for Pak Purwa understand and help. My respect Sigit.

16th October 2005, 04:08 AM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I am usually trying to stay away from the Kris issues: it is far too complicated and specialized area of weaponry and I know far too little about it to utter anything intelligent. But what we are talking about here is not tangible aspects of an intricately and beautifully shaped piece of metal (blade)and some organic material on top (handle), but some mystical and supernatural things. Yes, I know, we are supposed to be sensitive to other peoples' beliefs but the last time I looked outside, it still was 21st century. We can and should learn cultural aspects of the weapons we collect including the local lore, but out of curiosity: does anybody around here seriously and rationally believe in "esoteric properties' and "mystical powers" of this lovely weapon? If the answer is in the positive, I'll be requesting an application form for the Flat Earth Society.