FRENCH MODEL 1850 FOOT OFFICERS SWORD

christek · 9th May 2013, 01:54 AM

Hello William,

Thank you for the information, fantastic observation, this is very interesting! Regarding the unit markings/inspection marks, or rather the lack of, I agree that the most logical reasoning behind this lays with this being a private purchase. I always thought these were regulation officers sabres, so I wonder what advantage lies behind a private purchase, as an officer would be issued an identical sabre anyway?

Thank you for deciphering the makers mark, very interesting! I actually speak French quite well (my father is French) and it made great sense once pointed out. Indeed it would appear to be a rare mark, as I can not easily find others to research/compare. I thought I would mention, that FILS in French is actually translated to SON, so it would appear (and make sense) that Samuel Hoppe's son was the next manufacturer to take over the business. I wonder if the fact that this is a rare marking, means that the son either went into another business or decided to just stick with marking in his fathers name.

Thanks again for your help!

Kind regards,
Chris

William V. · 9th May 2013, 04:06 PM

Hello Chris,

in fact the father never used the beehive as his marking. The son Ferdinand Hoppe (who took over the business) got it in 1847 by marriage to a Julia Köller, I suppose as part of the dowry. Since then the marking was used by S. Hoppe and Son(s).
And regarding the epee itself: I think it was personal fashion to wear his own weapon rather then a regimentally issued one. I'm not sure (I collect fencing and dueling weapons, so the military is not my area) but I think that an officer wanted to show his wealth when carrying a personal weapon belonging to him. And of course he could take it home as a souvenir of his time in the military....

So far for today

All the best

William

Hotspur · 23rd May 2013, 03:53 PM

Great information on the Hoppe business. Would the elder have marked his blades just S H ? That would explain to me why the bee hive mark would not have appeared earlier in the 19th century and also connect the S H properly for my own studies of eaglehead pommel swords.

Cheers

GC

William V. · 3rd October 2013, 09:13 PM

Hello (again),

sorry for the long silence, I've just stumbled over this thread again and wanted to answer your question Hotspur:

I don't know if Samuel Hoppe used the SH marking. It may be possible. Another option would be Simon Helvig. I'd bet on Hoppe. But the Solingen city archives have so far not given me any answers to this question (which I was asking myself too) so far.

All the best

William

9th May 2013, 01:54 AM	#1
christek Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 52	Hello William, Thank you for the information, fantastic observation, this is very interesting! Regarding the unit markings/inspection marks, or rather the lack of, I agree that the most logical reasoning behind this lays with this being a private purchase. I always thought these were regulation officers sabres, so I wonder what advantage lies behind a private purchase, as an officer would be issued an identical sabre anyway? Thank you for deciphering the makers mark, very interesting! I actually speak French quite well (my father is French) and it made great sense once pointed out. Indeed it would appear to be a rare mark, as I can not easily find others to research/compare. I thought I would mention, that FILS in French is actually translated to SON, so it would appear (and make sense) that Samuel Hoppe's son was the next manufacturer to take over the business. I wonder if the fact that this is a rare marking, means that the son either went into another business or decided to just stick with marking in his fathers name. Thanks again for your help! Kind regards, Chris

9th May 2013, 04:06 PM	#2
William V. Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 33	Hello Chris, in fact the father never used the beehive as his marking. The son Ferdinand Hoppe (who took over the business) got it in 1847 by marriage to a Julia Köller, I suppose as part of the dowry. Since then the marking was used by S. Hoppe and Son(s). And regarding the epee itself: I think it was personal fashion to wear his own weapon rather then a regimentally issued one. I'm not sure (I collect fencing and dueling weapons, so the military is not my area) but I think that an officer wanted to show his wealth when carrying a personal weapon belonging to him. And of course he could take it home as a souvenir of his time in the military.... So far for today All the best William

23rd May 2013, 03:53 PM	#3
Hotspur Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nipmuc USA Posts: 514	Great information on the Hoppe business. Would the elder have marked his blades just S H ? That would explain to me why the bee hive mark would not have appeared earlier in the 19th century and also connect the S H properly for my own studies of eaglehead pommel swords. Cheers GC

3rd October 2013, 09:13 PM	#4
William V. Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 33	Hello (again), sorry for the long silence, I've just stumbled over this thread again and wanted to answer your question Hotspur: I don't know if Samuel Hoppe used the SH marking. It may be possible. Another option would be Simon Helvig. I'd bet on Hoppe. But the Solingen city archives have so far not given me any answers to this question (which I was asking myself too) so far. All the best William