Kris Sumatra or Malay?

A. G. Maisey · 22nd April 2013, 06:58 AM

We are looking at an up pointing triangle, thus we are looking at a symbol of Shiva.

The upward triangle does not represent three deities, it represents one:- Shiva, or as the Javanese have it, Siwa.

The downward triangle represents the female force, but we are not looking at downwards pointing triangle, we are looking at an upwards pointing one.

OK, we've made a start, you've got your hand on the door-knob.

Now turn it and open the door by thinking and making a few connections.

This door actually brings you into the room about halfway along, turn one way and you go back in time, turn the other and you go forward in time.

A lot of things happened before Siwa got into the act.

DAHenkel · 13th May 2013, 08:18 AM

To briefly interrupt the thread of the conversation, I wanted to address the question of the origin of the keris which are a part of the conversation. Both, I feel, come from the area of Sumatra known to the Minangkabau as the "Pasisiah", that is, the intermediary region to the east of the highland core of Minangkabau territory. This is a fascinating hinterland area made up of large parts of what are today Jambi and mainland Riau (traditionally ruled from Siak (Indrapura). The area is a patchwork of Minangkabau, Malay and Bugis origin communities and the keris which come from this area show the complex interplay of influences from all three communities. It is almost impossible to say much of anything specific about the pieces beyond that. Jean's piece is more distinctly Minangkabau in that it mirrors the styles of the heartlands (Agam, Batu Sangkar, Solok etc.) and Henri's is more Malay/Bugis (which by the time these keris were made were largely indistinguishable). A great deal of further research needs to be done on this region before anything distinct can be said about their keris. However, to get a better sense of the immense complexity of the area and of Sumatra in general I'd recommend a couple of interesting reads...one is To Live as Brothers by Barbara Watson Andaya and the other is Leaves of the Same Tree by her husband, Leonard Andaya. Neither says anything about keris but they both give a great sense of the extraordinary interplay of cultures and communities within the region.

Jean · 13th May 2013, 06:30 PM

Thank you very much Dave for this very informative post. If you have other typical specimens of krisses from this region to show, they will be welcome!

Regards

Sajen · 14th May 2013, 05:06 PM

Hello Jean,

have a look to this link: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=jambi

I believe that this keris is from the same area.

Regards,

Detlef

Jean · 14th May 2013, 06:33 PM

Thank you Detlef!
I recently bought this kris on Ebay from a respected forum member and I also wonder about its origin. It is different from the 2 pieces shown above and the kris from Detlef but it may originate from the same area in Central Sumatra (inland Riau or Jambi). Any opinion? I received it with the Bugis pistol grip but replaced it with a large Jawa Deman one, may be a mistake? Sorry for the pictures quality, the blade is not with me at present.
Best regards
Jean

Sajen · 14th May 2013, 07:43 PM

Hello Jean,

beautiful keris, have watched this one as well. I like the blade with it's fine pamor. I think that it is very good possible that this was the original hilt since it hasn't the typical Bugis kerdas form, just my humble opinion.

Best,

Detlef

DAHenkel · 15th May 2013, 12:31 AM

Definitely a mistake to replace the hilt Jean - I hope you have kept the original. Jambi I'd say and a very nice example. Congrats!

14th May 2013, 06:33 PM	#5
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Thank you Detlef! I recently bought this kris on Ebay from a respected forum member and I also wonder about its origin. It is different from the 2 pieces shown above and the kris from Detlef but it may originate from the same area in Central Sumatra (inland Riau or Jambi). Any opinion? I received it with the Bugis pistol grip but replaced it with a large Jawa Deman one, may be a mistake? Sorry for the pictures quality, the blade is not with me at present. Best regards Jean Attached Images

22nd April 2013, 06:58 AM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	We are looking at an up pointing triangle, thus we are looking at a symbol of Shiva. The upward triangle does not represent three deities, it represents one:- Shiva, or as the Javanese have it, Siwa. The downward triangle represents the female force, but we are not looking at downwards pointing triangle, we are looking at an upwards pointing one. OK, we've made a start, you've got your hand on the door-knob. Now turn it and open the door by thinking and making a few connections. This door actually brings you into the room about halfway along, turn one way and you go back in time, turn the other and you go forward in time. A lot of things happened before Siwa got into the act.

13th May 2013, 08:18 AM	#2
DAHenkel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 125	To briefly interrupt the thread of the conversation, I wanted to address the question of the origin of the keris which are a part of the conversation. Both, I feel, come from the area of Sumatra known to the Minangkabau as the "Pasisiah", that is, the intermediary region to the east of the highland core of Minangkabau territory. This is a fascinating hinterland area made up of large parts of what are today Jambi and mainland Riau (traditionally ruled from Siak (Indrapura). The area is a patchwork of Minangkabau, Malay and Bugis origin communities and the keris which come from this area show the complex interplay of influences from all three communities. It is almost impossible to say much of anything specific about the pieces beyond that. Jean's piece is more distinctly Minangkabau in that it mirrors the styles of the heartlands (Agam, Batu Sangkar, Solok etc.) and Henri's is more Malay/Bugis (which by the time these keris were made were largely indistinguishable). A great deal of further research needs to be done on this region before anything distinct can be said about their keris. However, to get a better sense of the immense complexity of the area and of Sumatra in general I'd recommend a couple of interesting reads...one is To Live as Brothers by Barbara Watson Andaya and the other is Leaves of the Same Tree by her husband, Leonard Andaya. Neither says anything about keris but they both give a great sense of the extraordinary interplay of cultures and communities within the region.

13th May 2013, 06:30 PM	#3
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Thank you very much Dave for this very informative post. If you have other typical specimens of krisses from this region to show, they will be welcome! Regards

14th May 2013, 05:06 PM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,165	Hello Jean, have a look to this link: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=jambi I believe that this keris is from the same area. Regards, Detlef

14th May 2013, 07:43 PM	#6
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,165	Hello Jean, beautiful keris, have watched this one as well. I like the blade with it's fine pamor. I think that it is very good possible that this was the original hilt since it hasn't the typical Bugis kerdas form, just my humble opinion. Best, Detlef

15th May 2013, 12:31 AM	#7
DAHenkel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 125	Definitely a mistake to replace the hilt Jean - I hope you have kept the original. Jambi I'd say and a very nice example. Congrats!