Broken 17 th century ? sword for id

Cerjak · 18th April 2013, 10:53 AM

Hi everybody
I bought two days ago this broken sword said to be from 17 th century I hope that a member will be able to tell me more about origin and period.
Any comment on it will be welcome

Regards

Cerjak

Norman McCormick · 18th April 2013, 08:40 PM

Hi Cerjak,
Your sword is a Hanger from the 2nd half 18thC. An internet search for 18thC hanger will bring up similar items.
Regards,
Norman.

Cerjak · 19th April 2013, 05:45 PM

Hi Normam

Thank you ,it is not a good news but it's better to know !
Have a nice week end

Cerjak

Jim McDougall · 19th April 2013, 10:16 PM

Norman is spot on, and the spirally gadrooned pommel w/capstan is in form of British and often colonial hangers (probably officers) of this period. The fact that it is indeed in remnant or comparable to excavated condition means it has intrinsic value as an antiquity especially if provenanced, but liitle value as a collectible.

Norman McCormick · 19th April 2013, 10:54 PM

Hi Jim,
Having a good look at the blade it looks as if it may be of the spadroon type albeit of the same period, what do you think? The single deep fuller and looking like it could be straight for all its length makes me think it is of this type. I based my initial thoughts on the hilt and didn't look closely enough at the blade.
My Regards,
Norman.

Jim McDougall · 20th April 2013, 04:29 PM

Good point Norman, this blade does appear to be a backsword blade, and with its general profile seems like British cavalry swords of the period. I think the 'spadroon' blades are quite similar. Without the guard being complete and the interesting remnant its hard to say which type sword this might have been. It is of course clear it was not a 'hanger' in the true sense as the blade would have been too long. Looks like time for a visit to Neumann if I can find it !

Cerjak · 20th April 2013, 08:54 PM

Hi Norman& Jim
With the information you have mentioned I found this sword photo's who have a similar pommel sold as American Revolutionary War officer's hanger

Regards

Cerjak

Jim McDougall · 20th April 2013, 11:55 PM

Nicely done Cerjak,
I have discovered that these type pommels are seen on French smallswords for officers as early as 1750s and the 'four slot' guards are seen on British cavalry swords and hangers as early as late 1750s. Since in those times, French styles often diffused into British, and essentially the American colonists were still British, this could very well have been the case with this hanger. A very good find I would say!

18th April 2013, 10:53 AM	#1
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	Broken 17 th century ? sword for id Hi everybody I bought two days ago this broken sword said to be from 17 th century I hope that a member will be able to tell me more about origin and period. Any comment on it will be welcome Regards Cerjak Attached Images

20th April 2013, 08:54 PM	#7
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	Hi Norman& Jim With the information you have mentioned I found this sword photo's who have a similar pommel sold as American Revolutionary War officer's hanger Regards Cerjak Attached Images

18th April 2013, 08:40 PM	#2
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,596	Hi Cerjak, Your sword is a Hanger from the 2nd half 18thC. An internet search for 18thC hanger will bring up similar items. Regards, Norman.

19th April 2013, 05:45 PM	#3
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	Hi Normam Thank you ,it is not a good news but it's better to know ! Have a nice week end Cerjak

19th April 2013, 10:16 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,944	Norman is spot on, and the spirally gadrooned pommel w/capstan is in form of British and often colonial hangers (probably officers) of this period. The fact that it is indeed in remnant or comparable to excavated condition means it has intrinsic value as an antiquity especially if provenanced, but liitle value as a collectible.

19th April 2013, 10:54 PM	#5
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,596	Hi Jim, Having a good look at the blade it looks as if it may be of the spadroon type albeit of the same period, what do you think? The single deep fuller and looking like it could be straight for all its length makes me think it is of this type. I based my initial thoughts on the hilt and didn't look closely enough at the blade. My Regards, Norman.

20th April 2013, 04:29 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,944	Good point Norman, this blade does appear to be a backsword blade, and with its general profile seems like British cavalry swords of the period. I think the 'spadroon' blades are quite similar. Without the guard being complete and the interesting remnant its hard to say which type sword this might have been. It is of course clear it was not a 'hanger' in the true sense as the blade would have been too long. Looks like time for a visit to Neumann if I can find it !

20th April 2013, 11:55 PM	#8
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,944	Nicely done Cerjak, I have discovered that these type pommels are seen on French smallswords for officers as early as 1750s and the 'four slot' guards are seen on British cavalry swords and hangers as early as late 1750s. Since in those times, French styles often diffused into British, and essentially the American colonists were still British, this could very well have been the case with this hanger. A very good find I would say!