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Old 18th March 2013, 01:39 AM   #1
Timo Nieminen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fearn
The ancient Egyptians had compound bows, although I don't recall offhand how they were made.
A whole bunch of composite bows (i.e., horn bows) were found in Tutankhamun's tomb. AFAIK, that's the single biggest find, but there may be others. Some of Tutankhamum's bows appear to be imports, being wrapped in birch bark, which is not common in Egypt.

I don't have details of Tut's bows, but there are books with the details. But this is Egypt as part of the Near/Middle East, rather than Egypt as part of Africa. We also have North African composite bows in the context North Africa as part of the Arab/Turkish world, rather than North Africa as "African".

I don't know of any African non-Near/Middle Eastern/Arab/Turkish influences composite bows. Rawhide backed or cabled bows are quite plausible, but I don't know of examples.

There are West African crossbows. A couple of examples can be seen in Grayson's "Traditional archery from six continents". Otherwise, African bows are self bows, often circular cross-section, sometimes with rawhide or other wrapping for reinforcement (e.g.f of nocks, but sometimes elsewhere).

['Compound" vs "composite" - in the early days, these were synonyms, but these days "compound" usually means the multi-string-pulley-cam things that only a physicist or an archer seeking efficiency would love. Perhaps 'twould have been better if those things had been called "ugly physics bows" or such. (I think they're "compound", due to "compound pulley".)]
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Old 18th March 2013, 03:59 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timo Nieminen
There are West African crossbows. A couple of examples can be seen in Grayson's "Traditional archery from six continents". Otherwise, African bows are self bows, often circular cross-section, sometimes with rawhide or other wrapping for reinforcement (e.g.f of nocks, but sometimes elsewhere).

['Compound" vs "composite" - in the early days, these were synonyms, but these days "compound" usually means the multi-string-pulley-cam things that only a physicist or an archer seeking efficiency would love. Perhaps 'twould have been better if those things had been called "ugly physics bows" or such. (I think they're "compound", due to "compound pulley".)]
On a side note, copies of the three volumes of the Traditional Bowyer's Bible are available cheap on a certain BigMuddyRiver online bookseller, and volume three has a chapter on African bows.

Thanks for the reminder: I'd forgotten about the crossbows. There's a nicely mounted one in the American Museum of Natural History in New York. Reportedly it's based on old Portuguese models of centuries ago, but made out of indigenous materials, of course.

As for modern compound bows, I've heard traditional archers call those things "four-wheel bows." While I agree with your assessment, I can't complain, really. They're simply America's contribution to the history of archery. Probably in centuries to come, people will collect the surviving examples and make all sorts of cooing noises over them. Similarly, the chair leg and car spring bows showing up in east Africa are another novel design, albeit a less powerful one. Despite the ubiquity of guns, people are still coming up with new bow designs even now.

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Old 18th March 2013, 04:12 PM   #3
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Fascinating to read the discussion as it progresses guys.

My understanding of the West African crossbows was also that they were based on designs encountered form the Portuguese.

This is an interesting link to a photo story of the Fulani protecting their herds in the modern day. It shows many interesting photos with bows.

http://www.teddyseguin.com/dotclear/...ng-kalachnikov
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Old 26th March 2013, 03:48 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iain
Fascinating to read the discussion as it progresses guys.

My understanding of the West African crossbows was also that they were based on designs encountered form the Portuguese.

This is an interesting link to a photo story of the Fulani protecting their herds in the modern day. It shows many interesting photos with bows.

http://www.teddyseguin.com/dotclear/...ng-kalachnikov
Great story. I was rereading the story about African bows in the Traditional Bowyer's Bible, Vol. 3. About a century ago, the Fulani were the raiders, and the Bassa (who still love their bows and poisoned arrows) were the defenders. I wonder if the reporter got the tribe identified right? The Fulani were not previously known as good archers, and "your back is as stiff a a Fulani's bow" was reportedly used as an insult.

In any case, the Bassa used an all-metal knife (!) called the manga that is used to draw the bow. The metal handle is placed just below the nock of the arrow to draw the bow, so as not to hurt the fingers (and to have a knife in hand while you shoot). Anyone seen a knife like this?

Best,

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Old 26th March 2013, 05:22 AM   #5
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Grayson's "Traditional Archery from Six Continents" calls them "bracer knives", but that doesn't bring much joy as a google search term.

They're used like finger tabs, with the blade hanging below the hand. Some examples in this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1882
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Old 26th March 2013, 12:02 PM   #6
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Cool. Now to figure out how to use such a knife to draw a bowstring.

I should point out that, contrary to Kukulz' speculation in the thread referenced, these knives were used with poisoned arrows. The point of using the knife was to take the strain of drawing the bow on metal, not on sensitive skin, and to have the knife ready in the hand, because it took some time for the arrows to kill.

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Old 26th March 2013, 12:23 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fearn
Great story. I was rereading the story about African bows in the Traditional Bowyer's Bible, Vol. 3. About a century ago, the Fulani were the raiders, and the Bassa (who still love their bows and poisoned arrows) were the defenders. I wonder if the reporter got the tribe identified right? The Fulani were not previously known as good archers, and "your back is as stiff a a Fulani's bow" was reportedly used as an insult.

In any case, the Bassa used an all-metal knife (!) called the manga that is used to draw the bow. The metal handle is placed just below the nock of the arrow to draw the bow, so as not to hurt the fingers (and to have a knife in hand while you shoot). Anyone seen a knife like this?

Best,

F
Hi fearn, it should be accurate with the tribal attribution, during the Fulani Jihads much of their forces were bowmen, owing to their lack of cavalry. Against the Hausa state of Gobir, who relied on heavy cavalry, Fulani archers proved rather effective at the Battle of Tabkin Kwotto. They made use of poisoned arrows as well.

The daggers in question are usually called loop daggers and are most often associated with the Tiv of Nigeria, although other groups used them as well. Googling Tiv loop dagger should turn up quite a few results.
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Old 26th March 2013, 07:23 PM   #8
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This is one case where calling them "tiv loop daggers" as opposed to "manga" (their Bassa name, at least), makes them much more searchable. Thanks.

Still trying to figure out how they were used to draw the bow. I think the loop goes around the knuckles, not the palm, but I could be wrong. The real issue is how to avoid cutting the string or yourself when holding a dagger point down in the drawing hand.

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Old 26th March 2013, 09:04 PM   #9
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Yes as far as I know it is not held past the knuckles.

I found the attached image on an older thread in the forum, which illustrates how it was held.
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Old 18th April 2013, 07:20 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fearn
... Thanks for the reminder: I'd forgotten about the crossbows. There's a nicely mounted one in the American Museum of Natural History in New York. Reportedly it's based on old Portuguese models of centuries ago, but made out of indigenous materials, of course....
This is an appealing issue for me. I am trying to spot some info about this topic, but it reveals hard to happen.
But at searching the theme i have read a lecture from qualified sources that bows and crossbows were used by both sides in the take over of Lisbon, Silves and Santarem from the Moors, in the XII century... Moors having invaded the peninsula in the VII century, coming from North Africa.
The lecturer inferred that there is not much material written on this theme in the period, due an ideologic despise against weapons that killed at distance, in favour of swords and lances, used in singular combat; hence the bow being called the forgotten weapon of the Reconquest.
It is also known that crossbows and bows were the vital weapon in battles fought by Portuguese low nobility, supported by populars, against Spaniards top royalty in the XIV century, to reassure Portugal independence; having the Portuguese been helped by allied British archers with their long bows. We may conclude that Portuguese bows were shorter, but i could find no evidence in my (rather simple) search.
Drawings of Portuguese archers or crossbow men are rare; and even the ones that show up are symbolic or alegoric.
On the other hand we can read chronicles of the discoveries period (XV-XVI century), where the crossbow is often mentioned. Perhaps at this stage the bow was abandoned.
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