Removing Epoxy

A. G. Maisey · 18th February 2013, 11:08 AM

It would perhaps assist a recommendation if we had a pic of the object, however I have never failed to remove a blade from a hilt by playing heat directly on the blade. I've never used a heat gun, I've never used any sort of chemicals to attempt dissolving the bond. You don't need to get the metal that is in contact with the adhesive all that hot, certainly not hot enough to affect the heat treat, and it is a simple matter to restore the blade once you've got it free of the gunk. I mostly use a gas torch, but I've been doing this sort of stuff for a very long time, its probably safer to use a candle, which is what I use when I'm away from home.

The simplest solution is often the best in any situation, and there's nothing more simple than a bit of heat direct to the blade. Javanese and other Indonesian weapons mostly have their blades fixed to the hilts with adhesive, and that adhesive gives way at about the same temperature as epoxy resin. M'ranggis have been mounting and demounting blades in the way I describe for hundreds of years.

With the torch I clamp the blade about mid point in a vice, wrapped in newspaper of course so the vice doesn't mark the blade, then I play the torch over both sides of the blade and at the same time work the hilt back and forth with my other hand. You can make sure the blade doesn't get too hot by continually testing the heat in the blade a few inches from where you're playing the torch.

With a candle, I wrap cloth around the blade and grip it with one hand, grip the hilt with the other hand and hold the blade over the candle flame, alternating sides.

I've probably demounted a few hundred old blades in this way since I started in this game.

Spunjer · 19th February 2013, 04:07 AM

thanks for the head's up, Stu!

this particular blade is frustrating the crap out of me, Alan. when i etch most of my blades, i usually take it off the handle, that way it would be uniform throughout and i won't have to worry about the acid (vinegar) seeping where the blade and the handle meets.
i've been removing the blade the same way you've instructed, but for some reason, this one just won't budge. i will take some pictures of my progress so far, if that's what it's called, lol.

fearn · 19th February 2013, 04:19 AM

You can get dissecting needles on Amazon, or Carolina biological. If you happen to live near a biggish college or university, you can also get them at the student store, since they're standard equipment for freshman biology labs. If you've got a particular crack you're trying to clean out, it's not a bad idea to check out such a student store, because they often have all manner of weird tools in the biology dissection and art areas.

As for alcohol, you can get some pretty high grade methanol (70%) at a pharmacy. Some states in the US sell everclear (100% ethanol) which is another dandy solvent, as is cheap, unflavored vodka (70% ethanol).

I'm a big fan of slow and steady. The alcohol will dehydrate the wood somewhat, so if you heat stress it too often, you may develop a crack. The key thing is that alcohol evaporates at a low temperature, so you don't have to get your oven very hot to drive it off. HOWEVER, alcohol vapors are also flammable, so I strongly recommend low heat and an electric oven, not a gas oven, unless you like blue flames. Remember also that if you evaporate a solvent, you're likely to end up breathing some of it. With ethanol, this isn't much of a problem, but other things are rather more toxic. I do suggest reading the warning label before playing with it.

My 0.00002 cents,

F

A. G. Maisey · 19th February 2013, 01:05 PM

Any possibility of a pin through the tang?

Spunjer · 20th February 2013, 03:00 AM

Thanks for everyone's feedback so far!
I've attach some pictures of what i'm working on.
Alan, i don't think it's pinned, but i'm beginning to wonder if the strap to the asang-asang is welded by rust. after taking some very close up pics, i can see where the strap looks like there's rust, but then again, it could just be the epoxy. i have tried methylene chloride, MEK, and acetone, but so far none of these worked. and heat. if the rust is bonding the strap to the handle, how do i go about in loosening this up?

Robert · 20th February 2013, 05:20 AM

Hello Spunjer, I've been watching this thread with great interest as I too have a piece that has been put together with epoxy and need the same help that you are looking for. As to the kris you are working on, I have one that the strap going to the asang-asang was actually nailed to the hilt. Do you think that this could be the same for yours?

Robert

A. G. Maisey · 20th February 2013, 07:02 AM

I've never worked on one of these Philippine pieces, however, a couple of things do occur to me.

Firstly I'd remove the covering on the hilt if this is possible, in order to ensure there was no pinning of either the tang or the support stirrups.

The second thought is this:- if those stirrups go up into the hilt and there is adhesive holding them too, it is entirely possible that the heat transfer through these much thinner pieces of metal is insufficient to heat the adhesive to the point where it will let go.

If you can get the metal hilt covering off it might be easier simply to cut away the wooden hilt inside the cover and replace it.

The tangs on the things I work on are very often bonded with rust, and then it becomes a matter of repeated heat treatments over days , or even weeks, and working the hilt back and forth under heat, Eventually they let go, but sometimes the rust is so bad it totally penetrates the tang and you need to replace that when you get it free.

kai · 22nd February 2013, 09:13 AM

Robert's suggestion is a good one:

Quote:

As to the kris you are working on, I have one that the strap going to the asang-asang was actually nailed to the hilt.

Yes, nails, or traditionally pins, wire, or some other binding may fasten the strips to the hilt.

I don't think that rust to the clamp strips is causing the problem but generous use of epoxy

may add to the problem.

Regards,
Kai

kai · 22nd February 2013, 09:27 AM

Hello Fearn,

Quote:

I'm a big fan of slow and steady.

Yeah, me too. IMHO, harsh chemicals should be used very, very cautiously if at all!

If you really need to soak in a solvent, I'd remove the pommel if seperate from the grip piece. The solvent may need weeks or months to evaporate completely...

Quote:

Remember also that if you evaporate a solvent, you're likely to end up breathing some of it. With ethanol, this isn't much of a problem, but other things are rather more toxic. I do suggest reading the warning label before playing with it.

I'd second that! I'd even make a point of downloading and reading the MSDS (material safety data sheets) from the website of any large chemical supply company for any chemical that you contemplate to utilize.

Better safe than sorry!
Regards,
Kai

18th February 2013, 11:08 AM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	It would perhaps assist a recommendation if we had a pic of the object, however I have never failed to remove a blade from a hilt by playing heat directly on the blade. I've never used a heat gun, I've never used any sort of chemicals to attempt dissolving the bond. You don't need to get the metal that is in contact with the adhesive all that hot, certainly not hot enough to affect the heat treat, and it is a simple matter to restore the blade once you've got it free of the gunk. I mostly use a gas torch, but I've been doing this sort of stuff for a very long time, its probably safer to use a candle, which is what I use when I'm away from home. The simplest solution is often the best in any situation, and there's nothing more simple than a bit of heat direct to the blade. Javanese and other Indonesian weapons mostly have their blades fixed to the hilts with adhesive, and that adhesive gives way at about the same temperature as epoxy resin. M'ranggis have been mounting and demounting blades in the way I describe for hundreds of years. With the torch I clamp the blade about mid point in a vice, wrapped in newspaper of course so the vice doesn't mark the blade, then I play the torch over both sides of the blade and at the same time work the hilt back and forth with my other hand. You can make sure the blade doesn't get too hot by continually testing the heat in the blade a few inches from where you're playing the torch. With a candle, I wrap cloth around the blade and grip it with one hand, grip the hilt with the other hand and hold the blade over the candle flame, alternating sides. I've probably demounted a few hundred old blades in this way since I started in this game. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 18th February 2013 at 11:18 AM.

20th February 2013, 03:00 AM	#5
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	Thanks for everyone's feedback so far! I've attach some pictures of what i'm working on. Alan, i don't think it's pinned, but i'm beginning to wonder if the strap to the asang-asang is welded by rust. after taking some very close up pics, i can see where the strap looks like there's rust, but then again, it could just be the epoxy. i have tried methylene chloride, MEK, and acetone, but so far none of these worked. and heat. if the rust is bonding the strap to the handle, how do i go about in loosening this up? Attached Images

19th February 2013, 04:07 AM	#2
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	thanks for the head's up, Stu! this particular blade is frustrating the crap out of me, Alan. when i etch most of my blades, i usually take it off the handle, that way it would be uniform throughout and i won't have to worry about the acid (vinegar) seeping where the blade and the handle meets. i've been removing the blade the same way you've instructed, but for some reason, this one just won't budge. i will take some pictures of my progress so far, if that's what it's called, lol.

19th February 2013, 04:19 AM	#3
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	You can get dissecting needles on Amazon, or Carolina biological. If you happen to live near a biggish college or university, you can also get them at the student store, since they're standard equipment for freshman biology labs. If you've got a particular crack you're trying to clean out, it's not a bad idea to check out such a student store, because they often have all manner of weird tools in the biology dissection and art areas. As for alcohol, you can get some pretty high grade methanol (70%) at a pharmacy. Some states in the US sell everclear (100% ethanol) which is another dandy solvent, as is cheap, unflavored vodka (70% ethanol). I'm a big fan of slow and steady. The alcohol will dehydrate the wood somewhat, so if you heat stress it too often, you may develop a crack. The key thing is that alcohol evaporates at a low temperature, so you don't have to get your oven very hot to drive it off. HOWEVER, alcohol vapors are also flammable, so I strongly recommend low heat and an electric oven, not a gas oven, unless you like blue flames. Remember also that if you evaporate a solvent, you're likely to end up breathing some of it. With ethanol, this isn't much of a problem, but other things are rather more toxic. I do suggest reading the warning label before playing with it. My 0.00002 cents, F

19th February 2013, 01:05 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Any possibility of a pin through the tang?

20th February 2013, 05:20 AM	#6
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hello Spunjer, I've been watching this thread with great interest as I too have a piece that has been put together with epoxy and need the same help that you are looking for. As to the kris you are working on, I have one that the strap going to the asang-asang was actually nailed to the hilt. Do you think that this could be the same for yours? Robert

20th February 2013, 07:02 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	I've never worked on one of these Philippine pieces, however, a couple of things do occur to me. Firstly I'd remove the covering on the hilt if this is possible, in order to ensure there was no pinning of either the tang or the support stirrups. The second thought is this:- if those stirrups go up into the hilt and there is adhesive holding them too, it is entirely possible that the heat transfer through these much thinner pieces of metal is insufficient to heat the adhesive to the point where it will let go. If you can get the metal hilt covering off it might be easier simply to cut away the wooden hilt inside the cover and replace it. The tangs on the things I work on are very often bonded with rust, and then it becomes a matter of repeated heat treatments over days , or even weeks, and working the hilt back and forth under heat, Eventually they let go, but sometimes the rust is so bad it totally penetrates the tang and you need to replace that when you get it free.