An European - Manding sword ?

[Zan]

Hello everybody,

I am a long time reader of this forum and for the first time, I want to submit to your opinion a sword. As you can see, it is an obvious European sabre from the 19th or the first half of the 20th century, but with some kind of Manding scabbard and with other African markings on the handle.

I have obtained it in Mopti, Mali, from a seller who was of little help about its origin (he told me it is a 100% Peulh sword!). Since the Manding country is very near Mopti and the Manding swords are often made from a scavenged European blade, it is possible that this one is of Manding origin, but with the European pommel not replaced. Also, the Bamanan (Bambara) ethnic group is very dominant in Mali and closely related to the Mandings, so it is possibly a Bamanan-influenced sword. There is maybe also a Tuareg influence, but the two “balls” of leather thongs are not typical. At first glance, I though the scabbard was tourist-made for facilitating the selling of the sabre, but it has some signs of wear and seam to be too old for this purpose.

I am an African edged weapons collector, so I really don’t know the origin of the original European sword. I suppose it is French, since Mali was a French colony (but maybe I oversimplify). The previous owner has proceeded to a very rough restoration, so there is unfortunately not a single marking on the blade.

The very interesting thing about this sword is the « ethnographical » background of it. We have an obvious European sabre recuperated by a completely different ethnic group (a West-African one), by making some markings on it and by remaking the scabbard in the typical style of this ethnic group. Since then, it is no more a European sword, but, let say, a Manding one.

Any help and comment on the two ethnographic backgrounds of this sword would be very appreciated!

[Tim Simmons]

Hello Zan, I do not know much about european swords but there is somthing about this one that makes me think that it is Manding and just made in a european stlye. The way back of the handle finnished and the ring under the knucke bow. I think the scabbard is very nice. Tim

[Ahriman]

The overall style is clearly french with modifications - I'd even dare saying that there wasn't ANY refurnituring, rather only decorating. Take a look at these. (they are results of a google search, as I'm not home, so I can't acces my own pictures) I think these look quite the same as you sword, with only small additions.

The other possibility is of course, as Tim said, that it's "simply" a copy. If that's the case, it's a VERY CLOSE copy. The only thing is that the fuller is not low as much as on the google pictures but that's not a huge thing; and of course the marks.
I hope I could help - my favourite swords are from the medieval-renaissance era, so I'm sure that there are folks out here who are far more experienced in this field.

BTW, nice sword... and nice scabbard.

[Tim Simmons]

I still think this is African made. It looks a little light for French construction. French swords and bayonets are always very well made. Clearly this is inspired by French arms but the finish on the blade would never do for the French army which I believe was considered the worlds most modern at the end of 19th century. Also the handle back is too simple. It does however have that elegance of French swords. Tim

[Zan]

Thank you Tim and Ahriman,

Although it is very possible this sword is a copy of a French sabre, I am realy not sure because the finish of the handle is far better than what I was expected to see in local swords in Mali, especially the Mandings one. Maybe it is a copy, but from another country / culture ?

I am also sending this picture of the reverse side of the handle, with a mysterious number that eludes me. A serial number or a remnant of a scavenged metal part ?

[Ahriman]

TIm, you're right... I keep forgetting that it's INDUSTRIAL age... so the quality is quite coherent.
As I have said, I'm most experienced in earlier weapons, where the style is much more important than the finish... because everyone had to buy one's own equipment from different smiths... My fault, I will try to remember.

I'd bet remnant of another part... serial numbers are mostly stamped paralell to a side, and mostly, if we're talking about a "stripe", on the centre area. It seems that there were numbers left out. This increases the chance of a copy.

[Tim Simmons]

Some interesting facts and figures on the Mandingo Wars and many other colonial conflicts can be found at www.onwar.com . Tim

[Tim Simmons]

Zan, I just thought I should add that saying this was a copy of a French sword was not meant as if it was made as a reproduction. I should think the original owner in Mali or there abouts was an extremely lucky chap, and so are you even if the weapon has a look that that is difficult to date . I have some pieces that have obviously lived in a draw for a lifetime or more, then when they come out no one can believe it because there is no date stamp on ethnographic weapons. Tim

[Jim McDougall]

I tend to agree with references to similarities to French sabres with this example, as it does reflect influences of 19th century French military forms. This does seem a 20th century interpretation of this form, and would concur with French colonial presence of course. It also seems that varying forms of European style stirrup hilt sabres are known to have been used by various military and para-military factions in West Africa even recently (one was seen in a photo of a khaki uniformed individual of a rebel faction which I believe was in Sierra Leone, from magazine item several years ago).


The Manding sabres which are easily recognized with elaborate guardless hilts and decorated scabbards most definitely used European blades, often Solingen but more frequently French sabre blades. It seems that during the 19th century and into the early 20th, tribes such as the Manding preferred thier own mounts and had no inclination to reproduce European hilts, at least as far as I am aware. The Tuareg also have maintained thier own familiar mounts on takouba, despite the obvious use of European blades regularly.

I would consider this sword intended for use by tribal militant groups in most likely West African regions, and probably well into 20th century. It is interesting to see the braided wire on the grip which seems skillfully applied despite the ill fitting brass mounts, reminding me of many rudimentary restoration jobs on early military sabres, as might be found with local armourers or blacksmiths simply furbishing weapons for troops. It does not seem that Manding or other Saharan tribesmen would be interested in trying to duplicate such military detail, nor using a weapon atypical of thier traditional form.

Best regards,
Jim

[Zan]

Thank you Ahriman, Jim and Tim.

Because of the quality of this sword, wich is far better than my other west-african swords and knifes, I though it HAS to be an all-European sword, but the possibility of a reproduction is to be seriously considered, for all the reasons you have mentionned.

Don't worry Tim, even if it is a copy, I keep loving this sword . More than beeing only concerned by edged weapons, the members of this forum and myself love the ethnographic background of each one, and this particular sword is a good example of a rich, though not entirely known, history. The part of mystery behind each sword is always fascinating