semi-dual edged badik?

[kai]

Hello Moshah,

Of course we still could not confirm the origin of the blade, as much as I would really love to have it labelled "made in N.Malayan" as that would explain much on the absence of pamor material.

Can't you get back to the seller and try to inquire? Also where the scabbard was made (and possibly wether the replacement was done based on an existing but broken one coming with the badik)? Does the hilt look older?

The dress (pix attached) were bona-fide Bugis. Albeit being newly made (which would lessen the inclination of possibility that it comes from there), the overall image has the Bugis look into them, and so does the blade.

I don't think we can base assumptions on any newly made scabbard. Minor sidenote: the wood of the stem looks N Malay to me FWIW...

If it was a conformed Bugis' badik, I think it is quite "obscene" for it not to have any pamor. Perhaps, made for the peasant...

Considering that the badik took the place of the keris as personal companion or alter ego in Bugis society, one would believe that there should be a good reason (i. e. adat & hormat) for anything relating to a badik. Hopefully, our few Bugis members could elaborate on the presence of wesi malela in S Sulawesi and what it might signify?


The scabbard on the example sold by Artzi is definitely not Sulawesi nor is mine; its ivory buntut also doesn't suggest that this piece was just a low-end version. The hilt on my piece does show the "multicolored" wood typically favored by N Malays, too.

Regards,
Kai

[Moshah]

Originally Posted by kai

Can't you get back to the seller and try to inquire? Also where the scabbard was made (and possibly wether the replacement was done based on an existing but broken one coming with the badik)? Does the hilt look older?

I always be extra careful on whatever the local seller will tell me. Not that I am so skeptical about them, but most of the time you either get a purported fairytale or misleading info. In this case, I do not think the seller would have much to say about it. However I think the scabbard and hilt would be a local commissioned, and look new even to untrained eyes.

Originally Posted by kai

I don't think we can base assumptions on any newly made scabbard.

Definitely, Kai, even with antique scabbard a closer look on the fitment is essential before one can say it's a real package. Many people travel around the globe and mix-marriage wherever they settled down, and I believe that also would happen to sheathed weapons of the old days...

Originally Posted by kai

The scabbard on the example sold by Artzi is definitely not Sulawesi nor is mine; its ivory buntut also doesn't suggest that this piece was just a low-end version. The hilt on my piece does show the "multicolored" wood typically favored by N Malays, too.

Really? I thought the scabbard and hilt of the one sold by Artzi was a Bugis one...However Artzi's example was the closest to my badik's design @ dhapur, and I would love to know from where it comes from...

BTW, would love to see your badik as well, Kai..

[Moshah]

Hi guys,

Received it today, safely.

I would say the hilt and sheath looks decently new - not a slight of dark, blackish hue that usually takes place on antique hilts. Unless it was clean thoroughly, I stand to be corrected. On the other hand, they were made out of nice wood plot and of a considerable good workmanship, it seems.

Apparently the shallow fuller can be clearly seen, as the slight concave runs from the first inch of the base, straight (and tapered) to the tip. The partial double-edge started a little bit further from the mid blade towards the tip.

The blade was really smooth to the touch. As I ran my finger along the blade from the base towards the tip through the mid-section, the feel was almost velvety. I know some Malay keris with this same attributes and it is locally coined as "besi baldu" - means velvety iron. Perhaps the absence of pamor contributes to this feel but I do have few non-pamorred kerises, and it feel nothing like this. Except one, old Sumatran / Palembang sepokal which shares this sensation of touch...

Kai, I've tried to ask the seller from where it comes from but as I've predicted - to no avail.

So guys, is the blade a Bugis, a Malay or perhaps a Sumatran?

[Moshah]

We're still in the grey, are we?

BTW Kai, does this badik resembles that one of yours?

[DAHenkel]

This is also a Peninsular piece which in Kelantan is usually called a "badik Bugis" ie. Bugis style, to distinguish it from the more typical Malay badik which have the mar.

BTW the piece pictured in post #5 is a typical Kelantan style badik and looks like a nice one. Good ones are hard to find. If you have the scabbard I'd love to see it.

Also, the piece in post #3 now belongs to me. Such double edged blades are almost certainly a European influence adopted from Western military style blades.

[Moshah]

Hi Dave,

Originally Posted by DAHenkel

This is also a Peninsular piece which in Kelantan is usually called a "badik Bugis" ie. Bugis style, to distinguish it from the more typical Malay badik which have the mar.

Seeing one without pamor make me think it is a Malayan all right, but with limited knowledge I can't bring myself to jump into conclusion in the very beginning. Some more I failed to see (google..sic..) a Bugis badik without a pamor, which adds to the skepticism. But when the item reached my hand, I think the quality of the besi baja would justify the absence of pamor, and the fuller started one inch after the base of the hilt, not right through (which would indicate a pedang reborned in its second life as a badik). So then I believe it is all right a badik.

Then your input and Kai's make me believe now that it is a Kelantanese / N.Malayan. Good lord!

I've heard that Kelantanese refers to these kind as "bodek" or "pisau bugis"...and the one with the "mar" was a "badik". Since Kelantan and Pattani generally have their own keris and weaponology culture that is unique to itself, I think their badik is their badik and that's that. But definitely the similarities to the sewar's family was there, indeed.

Originally Posted by DAHenkel

BTW the piece pictured in post #5 is a typical Kelantan style badik and looks like a nice one. Good ones are hard to find. If you have the scabbard I'd love to see it.

I am afraid that I do not have the picture of the scabbard, as this badik was not mine....
However I know the owner and would be happy to tell you who is it, if you really want to know. He's quite a figure in the Kelantan keris scene...

Originally Posted by DAHenkel

Also, the piece in post #3 now belongs to me. Such double edged blades are almost certainly a European influence adopted from Western military style blades.

OMG there's come the trouble Well, sorry but I have credited Artzi for it beforehand, because I don't know of the nice badik's whereabout already...

For a Peninsular piece, we hardly get to see any of the likes around so much. Not even here in Malaysia. Were the Kelantanese of the old days are more keen on the badiks with the "mar" type (i.e badik sepat etc) so that they did not make much of badiks with the design like yours and mine?

[Moshah]

Originally Posted by Moshah

...(when) the fuller started one inch after the base of the hilt, not right through (which would indicate a pedang reborned in its second life as a badik).

This is what I meant. The first box from left indicates the fuller starts, and the second box was the start of the partial edge, and the fuller still continues till half an inch before the tip.

[Moshah]

Originally Posted by DAHenkel

BTW the piece pictured in post #5 is a typical Kelantan style badik and looks like a nice one. Good ones are hard to find. If you have the scabbard I'd love to see it.

..anyway the scabbard for that badik would look like this example, as I recollected. Is this a typical Kelantanese badik sheath?

I guess the badik here is Kelantanese as well, with a mysterious kuningan that looks like a mixture of swassa in the pamor. But I though swassa or any other alloy couldn't mix up with the besi baja, so I really don't know what it is...

[T. Koch]

That's some great looking horn on that last one Moshah, especially the color of the hilt.


Cheers, - Thor