long parang nabur for comments

[asomotif]

Originally Posted by CharlesS

This is one of my favorite types of swords to handle. They always seem so well balanced regardless of their size.

Charles,
Are you referring to this long slender type of parang nabur or to Parang naburs in general ?

[Lew]

Horn damage? Looks fine to me

[weapons 27]

There is no damage in Horn handle!!!!

[T. Koch]

Hi Weapons! I recently also picked up a Beladah Belabang/PN. Mine shares the hilt style of yours, but is mounted with a blade of a more Langgai Tinggang-like profile, though.

It looks like the crevices on your knuckle- and thumb-guard are also filled with dirt or crud of some sort? Mine has that too! Is yours also hard as cement - I mean hard as in really bloody hard and impossible to remove?

Any idea as to what this gunk is and why it was put in the guard?


Cheers, - Thor

[asomotif]

Originally Posted by T. Koch

It looks like the crevices on your knuckle- and thumb-guard are also filled with dirt or crud of some sort? Mine has that too! Is yours also hard as cement - I mean hard as in really bloody hard and impossible to remove?

Any idea as to what this gunk is and why it was put in the guard?


Cheers, - Thor

I think that these brass guards where casted in earth, so the cavities are probably filled with burned earth, hence the hardness like cement.

I would not remove it if it was still there.

Best regards,
Willem

[T. Koch]

Really!?? I had no idea. Willem, yet again you blow my sword-loving mind! -thanks mate!

Then maybe you - or somebody else - can also answer me this too, now that we're talking BB's/PN's: Howcome we only see these attributed to the Malays of South Kalimantan/Banjar area? Why wasn't it adopted by Malays in other areas? I mean the culture as such, was pretty expansive, right?

Also, what did it originate from? I've often heard that the design is inspired by the Dutch naval cutlass of the period. Pardon me, but I don't think they are all that similar. Is this connection proven somewhere?

Also, I haven't anywhere - in online museum collections or elsewhere - been able to find period photos of Malays carrying these? I would simply love to see some!

Hope somebody can help.


Best wishes, - Thor

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by T. Koch

Also, what did it originate from? I've often heard that the design is inspired by the Dutch naval cutlass of the period. Pardon me, but I don't think they are all that similar. Is this connection proven somewhere?

IT will be hard to prove I guess, as there were a lot of cultures congregates in that area.
The Dutch established a VOC tradingpost in 1606 for the pepper trade....
I think the Beladah Belabang is a wonderfull weapon, where different cultures meet which can be shown in the sword (the "european"like knuckleguard in combination with the indigenous appearance).......
As most of these weapons were made halfway the 19th century because of the Banjarmasinwar, I think it's most likely to say that they took Dutch swords for example....

Originally Posted by T. Koch

, I haven't anywhere - in online museum collections or elsewhere - been able to find period photos of Malays carrying these? I would simply love to see some!

I've got one image of a chieftain (not dayak so, maybe a converted one or Malayan?) carrying a beladah belabang.
I hope somebody has another one, as this is the only one I know about!

Best,
Maurice

[Gustav]

Originally Posted by T. Koch

Then maybe you - or somebody else - can also answer me this too, now that we're talking BB's/PN's: Howcome we only see these attributed to the Malays of South Kalimantan/Banjar area?

There are some early articles regarding this very interesting thema:

Hendriks, A.

"Iets over de wapenfabricatie op Borneo" in "Verhandelingen van het Bataviaasch Genootschap van Kunsten en Wetenschappen 18", 1842: 1-30.

David van Duuren's summary of it is as follows:

"Report on the Sultanate of Banjermasin, Borneo, an important centre of weapon production in the first half of the 19th century. Circa two hundred armourers were active non-stop in various villages; seventy of them based in Negara, where an impressive range of guns, pistols, lances, sabres, klewangs and krisses could be ordered at fixed prices. Hendriks' article is not specifically about the kris, but is nonethless of great interest here, since it is among the earliest contributions to have focussed extensively on pamor forging, which was apparently applied on firearms as well as bladed weapons. He takes a detailed look at the interiors of the smiths' workshops, their tools and methods of working. The iron is extracted and melted locally; the pamor metal on the other hand is brought from elsewhere by the Chinese and the Buginese, for instance the Buginese regions in Celebes and the island of Timor. He includes a summary report on how from two slices of iron and two slices of pamor iron a sabre blade is forged, which upon completion is polished with stones, oil and a fragment of shark skin."

Then there is a reprint of this article with additional introduction by Geisweit van der Netten, C.A., in "Militaire Spectator 14", 1845: 24-35.

And finally an article by Grabowsky, F., "Negara, ein Industrie-Centrum in Südost-Borneo" in "Globus 55", 1889: 90-92.

There is also an article mentioned by Maurice in the post 43 here:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...9&page=2&pp=30

These swords have elements like hand-guards that clearly are mass produced.

I have some suspicions, some, if not most of the twistcore Sulu krisses were also produced there.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by asomotif

Charles,
Are you referring to this long slender type of parang nabur or to Parang naburs in general ?

I would say "in general". My longer ones are a little more awkward than the more typical ones.

I really like both of Maurice's examples...very interesting in different ways.

[VVV]

We have discussed the BB a lot in previous thread so no need to repeat it all again. I save some of my new finds for Baltimore...
It's interesting how many oversized BB that are found in private collections, based on that the longer version was supposed to be more symbolic and carried as a scepter?

Michael

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by VVV

I save some of my new finds for Baltimore...
It's interesting how many oversized BB that are found in private collections, based on that the longer version was supposed to be more symbolic and carried as a scepter?

Michael

A pity I will not be there to see your new finds in Baltimore!!!


Indeed I've seen several oversized BB also in private collections. And unfortunately nobody could tell me why they were so long.
I presume that the "symbolic and carried as a scepter" is a suggestion?

I hope we'll find a tight proof soon about the oversized BB's....

Maurice

[T. Koch]

Thank you so much Maurice - your mind is like a golden archive of all things Borneo! I am so thrilled to finally see a pic with a BB in situ, just fantastic!

The two examples you've posted above are a great couple as well.

The first one with the all-bronze hilt is just spectacular. The one I have at home is with a similar blade profile, although not executed with nearly as much attention to detail. Everything is so sharp and crisp on the one you show and it just excudes "QUALITY"!

The second one is as interesting as the first is gorgeous. Its the first BB I have seen dressed up with a sheath like that, katong evok, carvings and everything. Quite impressive! Maybe a Malay going 'native' or a Dayak joining the ranks?


Gustav, thank you very much for those references. From your quote it certainly seems as if Banjarmasin was a busy hub teeming with forge-work around this time. I will see if I can dust up the original articles - maybe they're accessible on KITLV, somewhere.


Thanks again guys and take care, - Thor

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by T. Koch

Thank you so much Maurice - your mind is like a golden archive of all things Borneo! I am so thrilled to finally see a pic with a BB in situ, just fantastic!

You're welcome Thor. At the end we all have the same interests and it's good sharing some knowledge/images to collectors like you who appreciate it!
Hopefully we will find more pictures or drawings of some warriors carrying a BB, but I think it will be a hard one to find.
As BB's are enough to be found in private collections and museum collections, and only this one image I've found on it on an old postcard, I think they all have been used in times when they didn't use camera's to make photographs. And when they had, these BB's were out of fashion allready.

That would make to ask another question to the rye!!!: Till when where they produced? Did they stop at the end of the Banjarmasinwar making these BB's?
I think they did, as we don't find any photographs besides the one I posted.....

Originally Posted by T. Koch

The first one with the all-bronze hilt is just spectacular. The one I have at home is with a similar blade profile, although not executed with nearly as much attention to detail. Everything is so sharp and crisp on the one you show and it just excudes "QUALITY"!

Don't forget they were made for warfare, and need to be used for that purpose. As a few exceptions they aren't that "fancy" and that makes me wonder if they were only made to fulfill what they made for: Slashing the "Dutch" enemy in the Banjarmasin war....

PS can you post an image of your BB?

Originally Posted by T. Koch

Gustav , thank you very much for those references. From your quote it certainly seems as if Banjarmasin was a busy hub teeming with forge-work around this time. I will see if I can dust up the original articles - maybe they're accessible on KITLV, somewhere.

Yes it was a good thing for Gustav mentioning these original articles.
I will forward you the article of Hendriks by pdf, but I don't know if you can read it, as it's in Dutch unfortunately...



Maurice

[T. Koch]

Originally Posted by Maurice

That would make to ask another question to the rye!!!: Till when where they produced? Did they stop at the end of the Banjarmasinwar making these BB's?
I think they did, as we don't find any photographs besides the one I posted.....

Certainly a valid question, Maurice! I think unveiling the geographical as well as the temporal occurrence of the BB, would be really exciting! Also as your translation of Muller over in the blunderbuss-thread states (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=16489&page=2), a lot of the weapons produced in the area were exported. Did this include the BB? If not, then why not? If yes, then might we have the possibility of finding specimens with collection localities outside of Kalimantan?

Online museum collections seem to be a good place to start. Unfortunately, they often illustrate their specimens with a single photo only and then often displayed in it's sheath. Oh well, it is better than nothing and I guess our possibilities will only improve with time as more museums go digital in that way and others hopefully upgrade to more - and higher resolution - images.

I unfortunately don't have any pics ready, and my work days are too long with too little sunlight this time of year (already owe you guys a scabbard-pic in the paka-thread). However, the dealer I traded into it with have a couple of pics, and I have mailed him for permission to post one here.


All the best, - Thor