messer, kiegsmesser, grosses messer, langes messer

[cornelistromp]

the dimension unfortunately I have not measured, but best I can reproduce on experience;
griplength 20-22cm and 105-110cm allover.
the canalures of the ricassoblok are also cut in the grip, fm there are petaled flowers punched in the grip as decoration.
In the middle of the grip was still a piece of the original rope available.
The iron plate ring at the end of the grip was gone.
furthermore there is a molded pommel plate and the tang is peened.

this is the first time I have encountered a sword with this type of construction. First I thought that this was an early sword Oakeshott type XIV 1300-1320 where later in 1500, in his second/third life a new grip was added. However after inspection in hands, my opinion is that the sword has been designed this way, most probably around 1500. The blade is probably dated, next to the sun/cross are gothic digits engaved.
Iam working on it, it is not easy, Hope Michael will be back with us soon.

[cornelistromp]

I have the actual dimensions;
allover 108cm
blade 86cm
original cross 20cm/2cm is missing
grip 20cm
ricasso + steel part of grip 2cm

[cornelistromp]

www.bonhams.com/auctions/14917/lot/154/

[Matchlock]

Another, with a straight but shortened blade, was also sold Bonhams on Nov 30, 2011.

m

[cornelistromp]

The following excavated water find, actually is not a messer because it has a pommel and no riveted grip.
but due to the single edged blade there are similarities with the KriegsMesser.
this type can be seen as the precursor of the extremely rare two handed Katzbalger, with 8-shaped guard and similar mushroom shaped pommel.

proabaly from practical considerations the very long parryrods were bent to become less wide in a eight shaped figure, making them more manageable in close combat,while the balance is maintained

landsknecht sword late 15th Century
lenght 114CM
crosswidth 32CM

[cornelistromp]

KHM Hofjagd- und Rüstkammer, Vienna, Austria NR 173 CIRCA 1490

[cornelistromp]

...

[stekemest]

All photos in this thread are copyrighted by either the author of the thread, Cornelistromp, or the authors of the respective posts, except mentioned otherwise.

That's quite funny because some of the pictures themselves are copyrighted, for example those of my own Messer. But I have no problem having them shown here.
I sold my own piece one or two years ago, so unfortunately, I can't show any more pictures. Generally, the typical "Messer" seems to possess a riveted handle because - that's my guess - it evolved out of the "Bauernwehr" (peasant's knife). That's a dagger-length weapon with riveted handle and single edged blade that became popular in the 14th century (for such pieces and their similarities to the "Messer", see, for example, Hugo Schneider: Waffen im Schweizerischen Landesmuseum, p. 268 ff.). There is no strict definition of what a Messer actually is, but to me it makes sense to restrict this term to weapons with riveted handle and single edged blade with varying degrees of curvature.