Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 4th January 2013, 08:22 PM   #1
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,761
Default Sudanese arm dagger for comment

Today I have won this dagger: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Great-Qualit...vip=true&rt=nc
I think that it is an arm dagger from Sudan. There was once a thread where Lew has shown his beautiful collection which let me want to have such a dagger. What I can see from the few pictures the seller has provided has it a good patination and a very well worked blade but I know nearly nothing abaut this daggers. So all comments, special about the age and the exact origin will be from great interest. A translation from the inscription on the blade, when possible, is also very appreciated.
Thanks in advance,

Detlef
Attached Images
   

Last edited by Sajen; 4th January 2013 at 11:46 PM.
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2013, 02:04 PM   #2
Lew
(deceased)
 
Lew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: East Coast USA
Posts: 3,191
Default

Very nice older example probably 1900-20? You will need someone to translate the inscription to be sure.
Lew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2013, 02:10 PM   #3
A.alnakkas
Member
 
A.alnakkas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Kuwait
Posts: 1,340
Default

Nice one. The inscription says: umdurman :-)
A.alnakkas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2013, 08:33 PM   #4
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,761
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lew
Very nice older example probably 1900-20? You will need someone to translate the inscription to be sure.
Thank you Lew,

have hoped that you comment on this one! Without having seen your very nice collection of this daggers I never will have get attention to them. I having seen that the inscription isn't a date but think that it maybe will give some further hints.
Hope that this dagger don't let become me addicted.

Regards,

Detlef
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2013, 08:39 PM   #5
Rick
Vikingsword Staff
 
Rick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,290
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sajen
Thank you Lew,

Hope that this dagger don't let become me addicted.

Regards,

Detlef
I think it's too late detlef ....
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2013, 08:52 PM   #6
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,761
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by A.alnakkas
Nice one. The inscription says: umdurman :-)
Hi Lotfy,

thank you for both, translation and compliment. Urdurman (or today Omdurman) is is the biggest city from Sudan, lying in the opposite from Khartoum apart from the Nil. So it's maybe worked in this city.
But there have been a battle at 1898 between Great Britain and Mahdist, see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Omdurman.
So it's maybe possible that it was a bringback to GB from an soldier.

Anyway, thank you again and regards,

Detlef
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2013, 08:54 PM   #7
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,761
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
I think it's too late detlef ....
You could be right!
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2013, 09:24 PM   #8
Atlantia
Member
 
Atlantia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The Sharp end
Posts: 2,928
Default

Hi Detlef,

It's a nice example. I'll be interested to see better pictures when you have it with you.

Also nice to have such a famous place name inscribed on the blade.
I always think it's a bonus to tie the item to a place or person.
A geographic location really 'anchors' an item wonderfully.

Looking at the pictures we can't see the other side of the blade. Perhaps there could even be something more on the other side?

أم درمان Looking at 'Umm Durmān' in standard Arabic makes you realise how fortunate we are to have Lotfy to translate for us!
He managed to make out "shughl Om Durman" on my silver box as well!
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=16282

Best
Gene

Last edited by Atlantia; 5th January 2013 at 09:41 PM.
Atlantia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th January 2013, 11:00 AM   #9
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,761
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlantia
Hi Detlef,

It's a nice example. I'll be interested to see better pictures when you have it with you.

Also nice to have such a famous place name inscribed on the blade.
I always think it's a bonus to tie the item to a place or person.
A geographic location really 'anchors' an item wonderfully.

Looking at the pictures we can't see the other side of the blade. Perhaps there could even be something more on the other side?

أم درمان Looking at 'Umm Durmān' in standard Arabic makes you realise how fortunate we are to have Lotfy to translate for us!
He managed to make out "shughl Om Durman" on my silver box as well!
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=16282

Best
Gene
Hi Gene,

thank you.
And yes, it's great that Lotfy was able to translate the inscription. I am as well very curious to hold it in my hands, we can't see the other side of the blade nor the complete blade and it's possible that there are more inscriptions on the blade. BTW, very nice silver box you have there.

Best,

Detlef
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th January 2013, 12:55 PM   #10
Martin Lubojacky
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Czech Republic
Posts: 841
Default

This is very nice representative of its type. Congratulations
Martin Lubojacky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th January 2013, 01:02 PM   #11
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,761
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Lubojacky
This is very nice representative of its type. Congratulations
Thank you Martin,

any thoughts about the age and the inscription?

Regards,

Detlef
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th January 2013, 01:05 PM   #12
A.alnakkas
Member
 
A.alnakkas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Kuwait
Posts: 1,340
Default

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13804

I had one very similar, the date on the one I had was 1942.. maybe that can help?
A.alnakkas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th January 2013, 02:30 PM   #13
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,761
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by A.alnakkas
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13804

I had one very similar, the date on the one I had was 1942.. maybe that can help?
Thank you Lotfy,

I still remember your thread. Still hope that there at mine as well more inscriptions and maybe also a date.

Regards,

Detlef
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th January 2013, 05:58 PM   #14
Martin Lubojacky
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Czech Republic
Posts: 841
Default

Hi Detlef, I donīt have any special thoughts. As Lew said - "nice older example". Maybe faded look of the crocodile leather could be used as criterion of the age of the sheath, also the thinness of the small-patterned design. And, I am not sure, but maybe also distinctively rhombic cross-section of the handle (?)
Martin Lubojacky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th January 2013, 06:13 PM   #15
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,761
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Lubojacky
Hi Detlef, I donīt have any special thoughts. As Lew said - "nice older example". Maybe faded look of the crocodile leather could be used as criterion of the age of the sheath, also the thinness of the small-patterned design. And, I am not sure, but maybe also distinctively rhombic cross-section of the handle (?)

Thank's again Martin, "nice older example" is already good and your hints for age estimation are good ones IMHO.

Regards,

Detlef
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th January 2013, 03:52 PM   #16
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,761
Default

Have received the dagger and I am very pleased with it. There isn't a second inscription on the blade. Here are some pictures after it has received some maintenance.
Attached Images
        
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th January 2013, 05:38 PM   #17
Lew
(deceased)
 
Lew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: East Coast USA
Posts: 3,191
Default

Beautiful!
Lew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th January 2013, 05:51 PM   #18
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,761
Default

Thank you Lew!
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th January 2013, 08:57 PM   #19
Atlantia
Member
 
Atlantia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The Sharp end
Posts: 2,928
Default

Congratulations Detlef, It's a very good example.
Atlantia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th January 2013, 11:33 AM   #20
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,761
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlantia
Congratulations Detlef, It's a very good example.
Thank you Gene, but it's a shame that the arm loop from the scabbard is missing.

Regards,

Detlef
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th January 2013, 12:49 PM   #21
Atlantia
Member
 
Atlantia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The Sharp end
Posts: 2,928
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sajen
Thank you Gene, but it's a shame that the arm loop from the scabbard is missing.

Regards,

Detlef
Ah! But it's better than no scabbard at all
And the dagger itself is a very nice example
Atlantia is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:22 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.