African curved sword for discussion/comment ?

Taffjones · 4th January 2013, 09:12 AM

Hi Jim,
I notice that the pommel caps of particularly the rhino hilted shotels have the Arab type filigree work which I know is also found on weapons of the Beja Hadendoa and the Jile type daggers and swords from surrounding countries.
Thanks
Darren

Iain · 4th January 2013, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taffjones

Hi Jim,
I notice that the pommel caps of particularly the rhino hilted shotels have the Arab type filigree work which I know is also found on weapons of the Beja Hadendoa and the Jile type daggers and swords from surrounding countries.
Thanks
Darren

I wouldn't classify this as an Arab style particularly. As Jim said, there is a long history of detailed metal work in Ethiopia including jewelry and church items like elaborate crosses. Here's a particularly fancy shotel and scabbard: http://oriental-arms.com/photos.php?id=4693

Taffjones · 4th January 2013, 10:55 AM

Thanks Iain,
I now know that i have a tendency to oversimplify and generalize on these matters. Having read through some old forum postings I now realize that not all Silver granulation and filigree work originated in Arabia and that African countries have a strong tradition with silver/ metal work.
Thanks
Darren

Iain · 4th January 2013, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taffjones

Thanks Iain,
I now know that i have a tendency to oversimplify and generalize on these matters. Having read through some old forum postings I now realize that not all Silver granulation and filigree work originated in Arabia and that African countries have a strong tradition with silver/ metal work.
Thanks
Darren

Hi Darren, happy to help out. Ethiopia is an interesting case as a country with fairly well defined territorial borders and history for a very long period of time. It was also somewhat isolated due to cultural and religious factors. Seeing your sword is making me want to start collecting Ethiopian items as well!

Jim McDougall · 4th January 2013, 03:00 PM

Ethiopia and Eritrea are indeed interesting regions, and Ethiopia (then Abyssinia) entered the Mahdist campaigns alled with Great Britain and Ottoman Egypt from 1885-89. The kaskara of the Sudan in well known in Eritrea as well as in degree in Ethiopia, and Beja Hadendoa tribal groups were well situated already in these regions. The shotel however did not cross diffuse into Sudanese regions, and I am not aware of Hadendoa using them.
The 'gile' was the shorter and heavier weapon which was used by the Afar in Danakil regions of Ethiopia.

The filigree and openwork seen on some of these weapons more decorative seem likely to have been the work of artisans associated with the brisk import trade from the Red Sea including Arab regions, much of which was situated in Addis Adaba and Harar both in Ethiopia.

Iain · 8th January 2013, 05:55 PM

Just to add a bit of interesting historical detail, the British had actually fought the Ethiopians not that long before the Madhist period. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British...n_to_Abyssinia

There was also large battle between the Madhists and the Ethiopians
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Gallabat

Not as well known as the actions involving the British but extremely important none the less.

Martin Lubojacky · 8th January 2013, 10:31 PM

Hi Iain,
I am afraid - aren´t you developing a taste for Ethiopia ? (BTW - If you are in Prague this Saturday, Ethiopians celebrate theit Christmas in Technical Library)
The history of the country is very rich and interesting, including the history of military affairs. As far as the interaction with the Arab Peninsula is concerned, maybe it is irrelevant in connection with filigree - but this history of close interaction began thousands years ago - during the ancient times of the Land of Sheba, when, allegedly (I should study a liitle bit more), Yemen and Abyssinian territories were culturally homogenous (maybe also during Aksum Kingdom). And at that old times, the Horn of Africa was settled in two big waves from Arab peninsula, and the "newcomers" mixed with old residents.
Ethiopians are very skilled gold and silversmiths, which could by confirmed by everybody who visited "Piazza" in Addis. They have still been producing their own various styles (also filigree) of gold and silver jewelery.
(encl. "Ethiopian still life")
Regards,
Martin

8th January 2013, 10:31 PM	#7
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 843	Hi Iain, I am afraid - aren´t you developing a taste for Ethiopia ? (BTW - If you are in Prague this Saturday, Ethiopians celebrate theit Christmas in Technical Library) The history of the country is very rich and interesting, including the history of military affairs. As far as the interaction with the Arab Peninsula is concerned, maybe it is irrelevant in connection with filigree - but this history of close interaction began thousands years ago - during the ancient times of the Land of Sheba, when, allegedly (I should study a liitle bit more), Yemen and Abyssinian territories were culturally homogenous (maybe also during Aksum Kingdom). And at that old times, the Horn of Africa was settled in two big waves from Arab peninsula, and the "newcomers" mixed with old residents. Ethiopians are very skilled gold and silversmiths, which could by confirmed by everybody who visited "Piazza" in Addis. They have still been producing their own various styles (also filigree) of gold and silver jewelery. (encl. "Ethiopian still life") Regards, Martin Attached Images

4th January 2013, 09:12 AM	#1
Taffjones Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Abertridwr Posts: 50	Hi Jim, I notice that the pommel caps of particularly the rhino hilted shotels have the Arab type filigree work which I know is also found on weapons of the Beja Hadendoa and the Jile type daggers and swords from surrounding countries. Thanks Darren

4th January 2013, 10:55 AM	#3
Taffjones Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Abertridwr Posts: 50	Thanks Iain, I now know that i have a tendency to oversimplify and generalize on these matters. Having read through some old forum postings I now realize that not all Silver granulation and filigree work originated in Arabia and that African countries have a strong tradition with silver/ metal work. Thanks Darren

4th January 2013, 03:00 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,189	Ethiopia and Eritrea are indeed interesting regions, and Ethiopia (then Abyssinia) entered the Mahdist campaigns alled with Great Britain and Ottoman Egypt from 1885-89. The kaskara of the Sudan in well known in Eritrea as well as in degree in Ethiopia, and Beja Hadendoa tribal groups were well situated already in these regions. The shotel however did not cross diffuse into Sudanese regions, and I am not aware of Hadendoa using them. The 'gile' was the shorter and heavier weapon which was used by the Afar in Danakil regions of Ethiopia. The filigree and openwork seen on some of these weapons more decorative seem likely to have been the work of artisans associated with the brisk import trade from the Red Sea including Arab regions, much of which was situated in Addis Adaba and Harar both in Ethiopia.

8th January 2013, 05:55 PM	#6
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,708	Just to add a bit of interesting historical detail, the British had actually fought the Ethiopians not that long before the Madhist period. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British...n_to_Abyssinia There was also large battle between the Madhists and the Ethiopians http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Gallabat Not as well known as the actions involving the British but extremely important none the less.