Philippine Insurrection Era Kriss ...or later??

Bangkaya · 3rd January 2013, 03:48 AM

The ukkil on the seki kura hilt and on the scabbard looks Sulu...I'm leaning towards Yakan and not Tausug.

The orientation on how a kris or kalis is worn (whether "tachi" or "katana" style) is dependent on the owner, but more importantly the style of silat he practices...not which side of the scabbard is fancier.

Regards,
Bangkaya

Rick · 3rd January 2013, 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bangkaya

The ukkil on the seki kura hilt and on the scabbard looks Sulu...I'm leaning towards Yakan and not Tausug.

The orientation on how a kris or kalis is worn (whether "tachi" or "katana" style) is dependent on the owner, but more importantly the style of silat he practices...not which side of the scabbard is fancier.

Regards,
Bangkaya

This begs the question :
Did the old-timers even refer to their fighting technique as Silat ?

Bangkaya · 3rd January 2013, 04:18 AM

Rick,
Not necessarily. But in Sulu the fighting art there is what most people would call silat and there are several different family systems there. Much like in the Visayas and Luzon the fighting arts there are lumped together as arnis, eskrima, and kali....although there are many different systems there as well. Many of the old time eskrimadors or anisadors didn't even call it arnis, eskrima, or kali....just whatever they wanted to call it. But there is a difference between the Bangsamoro fighting arts and the Filipino martial arts. Where the Filipino fighting arts are purely Filipino in origin (with maybe slight Spanish influence) the Bangsamoro fighting arts has its origins or rather influence from the Indo/Malay fighting arts of silat. As a practioner of both arts of eskrima and silat, I can definitely say there is a big difference, but its hard to explain to non-practitioners of either arts.

Regards,
Bangkaya

Rick · 3rd January 2013, 05:40 AM

Thank you, Bangkaya .

That clears up a question that has been on my mind for some time now; being a Collector rather than a Practitioner .

David · 3rd January 2013, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bangkaya

The orientation on how a kris or kalis is worn (whether "tachi" or "katana" style) is dependent on the owner, but more importantly the style of silat he practices...not which side of the scabbard is fancier.

And which style uses the orientation i provided in these images? Personally i prefer this draw as it brings the blade out of the scabbard in a manner that positions it for a strong downward cut.

Bangkaya · 3rd January 2013, 10:03 PM

David,
Sorry I can't be specific since most of the silat systems within Bangsamoro are family sytems with no specific names and just referred to as just "silat" and most often is not taught outside the clan. There are as many different silat systems within the Bangsamoro arts as there are different forms of eskrima, arnis, or kali within the Filipino martial arts (FMA.) Though FMA has more exposure worldwide and many different systems are quite known and taught worldwide, the silat arts of Bangsamoro are not as well known because it is rarely if ever taught to outsiders of the clan.

I suggest we get back to the subject of this thread before it digresses to silat thread which I wish to avoid.

Regards,
Bangkaya

David · 4th January 2013, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bangkaya

I suggest we get back to the subject of this thread before it digresses to silat thread which I wish to avoid.

I don't see much danger of that Bangkaya...still, how these swords were wielded, including various methods of the draw seem very much in the scope of the subject. I believe we can discuss this without losing sight of the weapon at hand. Actually naming the Silat style is not that important. Just thought you might know since it was you who brought up these stylistic differences to begin with and you have told us that you practice both eskrima and silat.

Rick · 5th January 2013, 05:49 PM

I've been thinking about that scabbard and went back to a book I have; Warren's The Sulu Zone .
In the later deacdes of the 19th century the Sultanate of Sulu had a population of roughly 200,000 souls .
Many of these people were taken from the northern islands by raiding parties .
The Sultanate needed manpower for tripang, pearl and shell gathering .
Many of these captive workers assimilated into Sulu society over time .

I don't think it would be too much of a stretch for this scabbard to be contemporary to those times .

5th January 2013, 05:49 PM	#8
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	From Left Field I've been thinking about that scabbard and went back to a book I have; Warren's The Sulu Zone . In the later deacdes of the 19th century the Sultanate of Sulu had a population of roughly 200,000 souls . Many of these people were taken from the northern islands by raiding parties . The Sultanate needed manpower for tripang, pearl and shell gathering . Many of these captive workers assimilated into Sulu society over time . I don't think it would be too much of a stretch for this scabbard to be contemporary to those times .

3rd January 2013, 03:48 AM	#1
Bangkaya Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 38	The ukkil on the seki kura hilt and on the scabbard looks Sulu...I'm leaning towards Yakan and not Tausug. The orientation on how a kris or kalis is worn (whether "tachi" or "katana" style) is dependent on the owner, but more importantly the style of silat he practices...not which side of the scabbard is fancier. Regards, Bangkaya

3rd January 2013, 04:18 AM	#3
Bangkaya Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 38	Rick, Not necessarily. But in Sulu the fighting art there is what most people would call silat and there are several different family systems there. Much like in the Visayas and Luzon the fighting arts there are lumped together as arnis, eskrima, and kali....although there are many different systems there as well. Many of the old time eskrimadors or anisadors didn't even call it arnis, eskrima, or kali....just whatever they wanted to call it. But there is a difference between the Bangsamoro fighting arts and the Filipino martial arts. Where the Filipino fighting arts are purely Filipino in origin (with maybe slight Spanish influence) the Bangsamoro fighting arts has its origins or rather influence from the Indo/Malay fighting arts of silat. As a practioner of both arts of eskrima and silat, I can definitely say there is a big difference, but its hard to explain to non-practitioners of either arts. Regards, Bangkaya

3rd January 2013, 05:40 AM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Thank you, Bangkaya . That clears up a question that has been on my mind for some time now; being a Collector rather than a Practitioner .

3rd January 2013, 10:03 PM	#6
Bangkaya Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 38	David, Sorry I can't be specific since most of the silat systems within Bangsamoro are family sytems with no specific names and just referred to as just "silat" and most often is not taught outside the clan. There are as many different silat systems within the Bangsamoro arts as there are different forms of eskrima, arnis, or kali within the Filipino martial arts (FMA.) Though FMA has more exposure worldwide and many different systems are quite known and taught worldwide, the silat arts of Bangsamoro are not as well known because it is rarely if ever taught to outsiders of the clan. I suggest we get back to the subject of this thread before it digresses to silat thread which I wish to avoid. Regards, Bangkaya