keris bali

[BluErf]

All parties shd take a deep breath and relax...

Anyway, I thought the sheath was most interesting. The way the 3rd eye of shiva was carved on the wrangka is something new to me, so are the longer than usual daun-daun (the curls at both ends of the wrangka). Also interesting is the 'fuller' that extends from batang into the wrangka. Any further insights into the origins of this sheath form?

[Rick]

Exhales...........

Hi Blu , I have seen some similar elements pictured in Jensen's Den Indonesiske Kris .
The extended fullers are Balinese and elements of the extended doan doan can also be seen in the same book as Balinese , but not exclusively so for either design element .
The bulbous wrangka seems more like a Javanese feature .

The eye of Shiva is a most unusual interpretation of this element and puzzles me too .

I'd vote for a Jawa Bali fusion most likely made in Jawa .
Only my opinion though .
YMMV

[nechesh]

Originally Posted by Rick

I'd vote for a Jawa Bali fusion most likely made in Jawa .
Only my opinion though .
YMMV

Rick, are you referring to just the sheath here, or the blade as well.
This sheath seems to combine elements i've seen in early Bali Ladrang sheaths with more Javanese or Madurese styles.It also bears some resemblence to certain types of Madurese Ladrang styles. It is obviously newer than the blade and appears fairly recent in the photos. Both Hilt and Sarong seem to be a matched set, made at the same time from the same wood and made for this blade. My feeling is that it was probably recently made in Madura, though i wouldn't count out Jawa.The blade, however, is Balinese made, IMO, but it is only an opinion.

[Rick]

Just the sheath Nechesh , and I do agree the ukiran seems to be made ensemble but since Kai wee was referring to the sheath that is what I addressed .

[Alam Shah]

Interestingly, the hilt on the 4th picture shows an abstract image of a 'wayang character", side profile. 5th picture of the newer photos, the hilt shows an abstract image of a "beast". Just an observation.

[purwacarita]

Hi Nechesh. I have my own view, others can have different one. Being different does not mean either is wrong. You can say your weapon as pusaka if you treasure it after its historical properties albeit it does not have any esoteric induced. It will be your pusaka, but when you hand over the keris to other person and he do not appreciate the keris the same way you do, he will not think of the keris as pusaka.

Another example, I should call my pertimi, pusaka. Because of its capability/capacity in the history of the family, ...but saying it pusaka will loosen its core meaning as a blessed keris, pertimi. So I'd rather call it as its property, pertimi.

I'm glad that you still concern about the yoni perspective. I can sense the amplitude of it with my skin, but I could not determine the type. Any suggestions? You seem you could sense it too.

Hi Rick. The insult is when people lie about their keris when they try to sell it in order to fetch higher price. I see the efficacy of stone idea for people not to easily withdraw their keris. I think it'll work for any pecalang. Thank you.

[purwacarita]

Inhale......

[nechesh]

Originally Posted by purwacarita

Hi Nechesh. I have my own view, others can have different one. Being different does not mean either is wrong. You can say your weapon as pusaka if you treasure it after its historical properties albeit it does not have any esoteric induced. It will be your pusaka, but when you hand over the keris to other person and he do not appreciate the keris the same way you do, he will not think of the keris as pusaka.

Another example, I should call my pertimi, pusaka. Because of its capability/capacity in the history of the family, ...but saying it pusaka will loosen its core meaning as a blessed keris, pertimi. So I'd rather call it as its property, pertimi.

Purwa, You will find me pretty much in agreement with you in your first paragraph. However, you lose me in the second. I do not see why it isn't possible for your keris to be BOTH pusaka AND pertimi and to call them such, without "loosen(ing) the core meaning as a blessed keris". Both these conditions should be able to co-exist and infact strengthen one another.
The reason you got the response you did when you wrote: "I think that if you see the keris from beauty perspective, you would not care even if it is not originally from places as said. If you see from yoni perspective, you would not care if the keris is either 1 year old or 1000 years old. Just remember that what people say as kadutan, or pusaka, or pertimi, is not because the keris has those properties, but because people see it as such."......is not because i completely disagree with you. I think it is MOST important to find a keris that speaks to you, though it's beauty, yoni (though i still think this is a misuse of the word i understand your meaning ) and inner nature, not because it is this many years old or for that particular island. I obtain a certain keris because it calls to me for what ever reason. BUT....i then still want to know what it's story is as best i can discern. The story is not the reason to get the keris, but trying to work these things out is a big part of what we do here on this form. People here collect keris for MANY different reasons, ALL of them are valid. Some have spiritual connection like you and i. Some do not. Neither should be seen as a superior position. But we all want to know and share as much information about any piece presented here as best we can. In that light, to say that you think we should not care about the age and origins of these keris seems a bit out of place and leave a whole lot less to talk about.