Sinhala / Sri Lankan Swords?

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams Weerakkody.

Your painting is recent and not taken from an historic reference dating before the Portuguese involvement.. Am I correct in assuming this?

Without wishing to get into a discussion long and difficult (impossible) about "whats in a word" I would caution that there is little evidence either way. I cannot see much of a tie up with your word association except that it is interesting.

Where I suggest a potential area of research which you may be better placed to identify is in the Martial Arts pre Portuguese weaponry style of swords used. The fact is that we are unable to identify an early enough Kastane (Kasthane) which would prove beyond doubt its earlier position.

The 16/17th century is too late....because;

In 1505 Don Lourenço de Almeida, son of the Portuguese viceroy in India, was sailing off the southwestern coast of Sri Lanka looking for Moorish ships to attack when stormy weather forced his fleet to dock at Galle. The rest as we say is history.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Salaams Weerakkody ~ I have looked again at your explanation of the Kasthane word origins and I have to say it is a well thought out proposition ...what you indicate could be fact .. but unfortunately it doesn't change the equation based ion the first appearance of the Portuguese in Sri Lanka.(1505AD) The point is that even if the word Kasthane is pure Sri Lankan they(the Portuguese ) were already there ... and in the case of the word being Sri Lankan the design and manufacture may not have been, moreover, cooperation in both were likely carried out in Royal workshops, thus, the weapon itself may be a hybrid with aspects of both designers (Sri Lankan and Portuguese) including Buddhist influence etc.

Thank you for the hard work and insight on the linguistic angles.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Prasanna Weerakkody]

Thanks Thor for Complement, About the girls; sadly they don’t dress the same way now…

Balooshi, I have run the concept of Kasthana origin being the word Asthana with a few Sri Lankan historians and linguists and there is agreement to the high probability of the root of the word.

The design origin of Kasthana is also indigenous; and very likely pre-dated Portuguese arrival; though some elements of the Kasthana in its final form may have had possible Portuguese influence. I am still working on this- need more work…

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Prasanna Weerakkody

Balooshi, I have run the concept of Kasthana origin being the word Asthana with a few Sri Lankan historians and linguists and there is agreement to the high probability of the root of the word.

The design origin of Kasthana is also indigenous; and very likely pre-dated Portuguese arrival; though some elements of the Kasthana in its final form may have had possible Portuguese influence. I am still working on this- need more work…

Salaams Weerakkody ~ All good. It is entirely feasible that the Kastane is Portuguese assisted or even a pre Portuguese then later modified weapon... perhaps jointly worked and produced. It still remains possible, however, that this is a weapon developed by Portuguese / Sri Lankan co-operation post 1505. Perhaps there is some evidence at Museum level or in the archives?

My earlier suggestion of the link in Martial Arts weaponry may be another source.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all ~ Note to Forum...

This thread was very interesting and a huge amount of detail was logged for Forum library ~ Meanwhile, it stalled as threads so often do with the promise that we would get back to it soon...

I have seen various Kastane and some extremely nice items though with written detail tending to muddle the two terminologies of Lion Hilt with Makara. Auction houses in particular are reluctant to come down on one side of the fence as they percieve that potential clients could be put off with one of the descriptions so they put both

I hope that by resurecting this thread we can get a little closer to the truth.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All ~Note to Forum.

Please see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ed=1#post16117 .. I use this reference to illustrate the identity of the Kastane Hilt as Makara based.

The Malay peninsula weapon with a clear design based upon the Makara. See below the water spout design from the same monster form.

It has always intrigued me as to which way the Makara design spread ...

My theory on the Sri Lankan Kastane offers a design formulated by a joint Portuguese Sri Lankan workshops situation using The Makara combined onto a hilt with Vijra (Buddhist influence) elements(false quillons) onto which other Deities(Nagas) and the human faced crocodile on the hand guard are spilled and including a rain guard formed of the Makara (peacock form) tail.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All. Note to Library.

Here are a few new pictures and some maybe already pictured but I just wanted to bring on a group of shots of this sword style ... perhaps I can inspire some input from other Forum members and since this thread came to an abrupt halt a while ago it is time to breathe new life into it.. So lets go!

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all ...I seek the link between Kastane and Javanese/Indonesian/Malay weapons through the accepted religious/traditional aspect of the mythical Makara Hilts designs, thus, I show Javanese Pedang Lurus Sword with Pamor Blade, Padang Sesak from Indonesia, Makara on Malay Hilt (picture on a black background) below.

I am not only drawing conclusions about cross style transmission but also that what we are looking at in the Sri Lankan Kastane Hilt form is from the same source... The Makara.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

My theory on the Sri Lankan Kastane offers a design formulated by a joint Portuguese Sri Lankan workshops situation using The Makara combined onto a hilt with Vijra (Buddhist influence) elements(false quillons) onto which other Deities(Nagas) and the human faced crocodile on the hand guard are spilled and including a rain guard formed of the Makara (peacock form) tail.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

I think there is also a bit mix in it of a monkeyhead, as you can see above the makara head on the picture.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Maurice

I think there is also a bit mix in it of a monkeyhead, as you can see above the makara head on the picture.

Salaams Maurice... Makara!! .. Dragon, crocodile or serpent like head, ears of a mouse or pig, the horns of a goat, the body of an antelope or deer, the trunk of an elephant, a curved tail like that of a snake, peacock or fish and feet like those of a panther or a dog, with two horns on the forehead, its sides and bloated belly sometimes covered with leopard like spots, it is like nothing on earth... hmmm ?? Not sure ... it could be...

However, what about the huge grey stone object at the front?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.