Spanish Albacete Dagger.

Norman McCormick · 16th December 2012, 01:21 PM

Hi Gene,
Thanks for coming in on this, trawling the past threads I did note you had a certain penchant for these daggers.

As far as the voids and inserts go I can only see a decorative element to these, far too far up the blade for 'poison' and why would you want to put poison on them anyway

the blade profile is excellent as it is for thrusting to a depth that would be meaningful. My blade does not have a proper edge for 8.5 cms from the point and then it is perfectly sharp up to the point where it cuts in under the guard. Rather than a reinforced point per se I would surmise material has not been removed by sharpening that section thereby leaving it more robust for the obvious reasons, makes sense? I think these knives are meant to be both decorative and designed to be used much like the S.American Criollo (gaucho) knives. I really like the earlier one you have, quite a menacing beast. Thanks again for your interest.
My Regards,
Norman.

P.S. It would be interesting if those members who have one/some of these daggers to check out if theirs has an unsharpened point and to what extent up the blade it remains so.

carlos · 16th December 2012, 02:09 PM

Hello !!
Congratulations with this adquisition !!
Thanks for comment my collection, In Spain this type of knives are common in collectors web pages or antiques shop web page, and not more expensive.
I have seen my examples and I have seen one with this type without edged near the point.
Best regards

carlos

Atlantia · 16th December 2012, 02:49 PM

Hi Guys,

Well you know I'm always ready to talk about these!
I've tried to photograph the ppoint of mine edge-on to illustrate.

Norman McCormick · 18th December 2012, 08:08 PM

Hi Gene, Carlos,
Apologies for not getting back sooner. See the not very good image, hand held compact camera under a desk lamp

, but you get the gist. How old is this form?, seems to have a touch of the 'Medievals' to me, probably my imagination. Carlos, you have a good selection there, nice to see the variations.

Regards,
Norman.

Atlantia · 18th December 2012, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Hi Gene, Carlos,
Apologies for not getting back sooner. See the not very good image, hand held compact camera under a desk lamp

, but you get the gist. How old is this form?, seems to have a touch of the 'Medievals' to me, probably my imagination. Carlos, you have a good selection there, nice to see the variations.

Regards,
Norman.

Hi Norman,

Thats very interesting, your's seems to have exactly the same tip as mine.

I'm sure Carlos knows more about these than I.

As far as I know, although the 'type' goes back at least into the 18th century, the specific form of the type B, like yours and mine are usually attributed to the second half 19thC.
I've seen lots of slightly more elaborte ones (If memory serves often the lantern hilt type) with dated blades, often the dates are in the 1870s or around there.
I would say that if you claimed both of ours were made around then, you wouldn't be far out. Mid to late second half 19thC

Valjhun · 18th December 2012, 11:36 PM

Here is mine, what a wonderfull couple they would make together!

Norman McCormick · 22nd December 2012, 12:00 PM

Hi Guys,
Many thanks for your input and info on this dagger. Gene, I can understand your fascination with these daggers, nice wee things

. Valjhun, very nice example you have there even the insert is pierced and yes they would make a fine pair

. Thanks again guys.
My Regards,
Norman.

DaveA · 6th March 2014, 03:42 AM

Hello All,

Pardon me if I've missed it, but I have not found a satisfactory explanation for the cutouts and holes in the blades of these knives. At one time there was a suggestion that it had something to do with sail making. At another time, a place to put poison, or a mount for jewels -- yet no evidence for any theory that I could find.

I showed my knives to an expert sailor, familiar with the history of the sailmaking craft, and he could not fathom a reason for the design. He was very concerned about the sharp points and edges on the knives near valuable fabric.

Here are two pictures of my Albacete puñals. One is considerably larger but other than that they are VERY similar, EXCEPT
… note the arrows pointing to two locations on each knife. In one case holes, in the other, no holes.

What is the explanation?!??!?

Best Regards,

Dave A.

16th December 2012, 02:49 PM	#3
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Hi Guys, Well you know I'm always ready to talk about these! I've tried to photograph the ppoint of mine edge-on to illustrate. Attached Images

18th December 2012, 08:08 PM	#4
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,613	Hi Gene, Carlos, Apologies for not getting back sooner. See the not very good image, hand held compact camera under a desk lamp , but you get the gist. How old is this form?, seems to have a touch of the 'Medievals' to me, probably my imagination. Carlos, you have a good selection there, nice to see the variations. Regards, Norman. Attached Images

18th December 2012, 11:36 PM	#6
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	Here is mine, what a wonderfull couple they would make together! Attached Images

6th March 2014, 03:42 AM	#8
DaveA Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 415	Albacete mystery holes Hello All, Pardon me if I've missed it, but I have not found a satisfactory explanation for the cutouts and holes in the blades of these knives. At one time there was a suggestion that it had something to do with sail making. At another time, a place to put poison, or a mount for jewels -- yet no evidence for any theory that I could find. I showed my knives to an expert sailor, familiar with the history of the sailmaking craft, and he could not fathom a reason for the design. He was very concerned about the sharp points and edges on the knives near valuable fabric. Here are two pictures of my Albacete puñals. One is considerably larger but other than that they are VERY similar, EXCEPT … note the arrows pointing to two locations on each knife. In one case holes, in the other, no holes. What is the explanation?!??!? Best Regards, Dave A. Attached Images

16th December 2012, 01:21 PM	#1
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,613	Hi Gene, Thanks for coming in on this, trawling the past threads I did note you had a certain penchant for these daggers. As far as the voids and inserts go I can only see a decorative element to these, far too far up the blade for 'poison' and why would you want to put poison on them anyway the blade profile is excellent as it is for thrusting to a depth that would be meaningful. My blade does not have a proper edge for 8.5 cms from the point and then it is perfectly sharp up to the point where it cuts in under the guard. Rather than a reinforced point per se I would surmise material has not been removed by sharpening that section thereby leaving it more robust for the obvious reasons, makes sense? I think these knives are meant to be both decorative and designed to be used much like the S.American Criollo (gaucho) knives. I really like the earlier one you have, quite a menacing beast. Thanks again for your interest. My Regards, Norman. P.S. It would be interesting if those members who have one/some of these daggers to check out if theirs has an unsharpened point and to what extent up the blade it remains so.

16th December 2012, 02:09 PM	#2
carlos Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 748	Hello !! Congratulations with this adquisition !! Thanks for comment my collection, In Spain this type of knives are common in collectors web pages or antiques shop web page, and not more expensive. I have seen my examples and I have seen one with this type without edged near the point. Best regards carlos

22nd December 2012, 12:00 PM	#7
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,613	Hi Guys, Many thanks for your input and info on this dagger. Gene, I can understand your fascination with these daggers, nice wee things . Valjhun, very nice example you have there even the insert is pierced and yes they would make a fine pair . Thanks again guys. My Regards, Norman.