Miquelet Pistol, decoration and maker questions

[fernando]

Originally Posted by dana_w

That really looks like a Ripoll style lock. Do you think / know that they were made in Portugal?

Yes,
The pistols described in post #27 are Portuguese and have the same type of stock. The one made in Oporto also has an egg shape butt, pointing upwards (quoting).

[dana_w]

Originally Posted by fernando

Yes, The pistols described in post #27

I was under the impression that fan-shaped bridles were exclusive to Ripoll, or a maker from Ripoll. Here is an example made by Armanguer and dated 1675 on the inside of the lock.


"Cock and battery bridles seldom lacked decoration, even when the lock was otherwise plain. In Espinar’s day, except in the case of luxury arms, this rarely consisted of more than could be done by the gunsmith with file and chisel. In the beginning, it was restricted to spirals carried over directly from the Spanish wheel-lock. This ornament disappeared shortly after the middle of the seventeenth century.
Frequently, both bridles took the same form; that of the cock had a straight forward edge, while the rear had a pronounced S curve. The lower extreme was notched to form an inverted V. In the battery bridle, the design was merely reversed and placed horizontally. Fluted, fan-shaped bridles appear to have been restricted entirely to Ripoll, excepting the products of transplanted gunsmiths."

A History of Spanish Firearms, page 169

Attached photo

[fernando]

The fact that:

(Quote) Fluted, fan-shaped bridles appear to have been restricted entirely to Ripoll, excepting the products of transplanted gunsmiths.(Unquote)

Doesn't prevent from a fashion being spread all over ... specially facing a Country situated just across the border, which has also been occupied by Spain during 1580-1640. For such reason very often there is a preference to name a period weapon as Iberian, instead of Spanish or Portuguese.

.

[dana_w]

It is a little confusing to see Castilian style and Portuguese applied to that first pistol in post #30. I see the butt and butt plate distinctions you spoke about, are there any other differences that make this "Castilian style and Portuguese"?

Where did the image come from, your friends book? Do you have a closeup of the lock?

[fernando]

Originally Posted by dana_w

It is a little confusing to see Castilian style and Portuguese applied to that first pistol in post #30. I see the butt and butt plate distinctions you spoke about, are there any other differences that make this "Castilian style and Portuguese"?

Where did the image come from, your friends book? Do you have a closeup of the lock?

The Castillian style only refers to the lock (fecho) type. As there were also Portuguese versions, the authors make a point in distinguish them.
I don't have any close ups; i have a mere couple books and i scan them or i picture them while i discuss things in here.
These images are taken from the book ESPINGARDA PERFEYTA/ THE PERFECT GUN, a work written in the XVIII century by two (suspectedly three) Portuguese gun smith brothers, considered a unique achievement for the period, when the revealing of such techniques was considered a secret. This book became bilingual in 1974 when Rainer Daehnhardt and Keith Neal decided to translate it to english (ISBN 0 85667 014 6). You should buy one of these for your library .
Here are some close ups of patilha locks à Castelhana. Perhaps you may recognize the differences; i wouldn't .


.

[dana_w]

I have a copy of Espingarda Perfeyta somewhere. I'll go do a little more reading. Thanks for the info.

[dana_w]

What Neal & Daehnhart call "Castilian style" in fig 16 (top two photos of your post #32) and fig 29 (third photo of your post #32) seem VERY different. I'd enjoy seeing some more precisely defined and explicit examples.

After reading both of their books, I am a big fan of Dr. Lavin's scholarship when compared to Neal. Don't get me wrong both books are great, but Lavin likes to use contemporary terms and names ("llave ala moda"), while Neal uses locations ("Madrid Lock"). Lavin seems to be the expert when it comes to Etymology.

[corrado26]

I am a new member here from Germany and am reading the posts concerning miquelet pistols of Portugal with great interest. In my collec tion there is a small pistol without any marking but its style makes me think that it may have been produced in Portugal. I would be very glad if anyone here should be able to tell me if I am right or wrong. Many thanks in advance.
corrado26

[dana_w]

Originally Posted by corrado26

... its style makes me think that it may have been produced in Portugal. I would be very glad if anyone here should be able to tell me if I am right or wrong. Many thanks in advance.
corrado26

Nothing screams Portugal to me, but fernando may be able to give you an opinion.

I certainly like the like the lock. Can you show us a photo of the front half of the barrel, the trigger plate, and the butt / butt cap?

[corrado26]

Ok, here are the fotos of the buttplate and others.
All brass items are fixed with small brass nails. The foto with a very similar spring at the inner side of the lock I found in the book of Keith Neal, Spanish Guns and Pistols, Foto n°52.

Thanks für help.
corrado26

[fernando]

Welcome to the forum Corrado .
I am sorry that it takes someone with better knowledge (than me) to distinguish a Portuguese lock from a Spanish one. There are lots of similarities and often experts use the term "Portuguese (patilha) lock in the Castillian style".
You can also see this type of stock in both countries.
For some, the fixing of the parts with (plenty small) brass nails means Spain (Ripoll); but is also wide spread that, the position of the screw that fixes the barrel to the stock being in the inverted position, like in your example, means Portuguese.
We may also consider that having no marks or names tend to be Portuguese; Spanish examples were more often profusely marked.
It would be interesting to see a photo of the frizzen front face; is it plain or has any decoration ? Is the inner (striking) face removable ?
In any case this is a rather interesting pistol, Corrado; i wouldn't mind having it in my small collection