Sinhala / Sri Lankan Swords?

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all~Note to Forum~Ground breaking detail.

Historical evidence now exists of the origin of the word Kastane from a foreign word introduced to the West from a structure common in Sri Lanka in the 16th Century. I shall address this in my next post.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams all~Note to Forum~Ground breaking detail.

Historical evidence now exists of the origin of the word Kastane from a foreign word introduced to the West from a structure common in Sri Lanka in the 16th Century. I shall address this in my next post.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Olá Ibrahiim,
How soon your next post will be?

[VANDOO]

IF THE DESIGN FOR THE KASTANCE HILT AND QUILLIONS EVOLVED FROM THESE BUDHIST RITUAL OBJECTS THEN IT IS NOT JUST DECORATIVE IN NATURE. IT MAY BRING THE SAME SPIRITUAL PROTECTION AGAINS EVIL SPIRITS AND SUCH SO IT COULD BE A FUSION OF SPIRITUAL WEAPON AND ACTUAL SWORD. THIS WOULD BE APPROPRIATE IN COURT AS A INEFFECTIVE PHYSICAL WEAPON COULD BE ALLOWED BECAUSE MUCH SUPERIOR WEAPONS WERE PRESENT WITH THE GAURDS TO PROTECT THE RULERS. THE SYMBOLS ON THE HANDLE WOULD THEN PROTECT THE WEARER FROM EVIL SPIRITS AND SUCH ( THERE ARE ALWAYS PLENTY OF EVIL SPIRITS IN PLACES OF POWER ).
JUST MY THOUGHTS AND CONJECTURE BUT PERHAPS A LITTLE MORE INFORMATION MAY BE FOUND SEARCHING IN THAT DIRECTION.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by VANDOO

IF THE DESIGN FOR THE KASTANCE HILT AND QUILLIONS EVOLVED FROM THESE BUDHIST RITUAL OBJECTS THEN IT IS NOT JUST DECORATIVE IN NATURE. IT MAY BRING THE SAME SPIRITUAL PROTECTION AGAINS EVIL SPIRITS AND SUCH SO IT COULD BE A FUSION OF SPIRITUAL WEAPON AND ACTUAL SWORD. THIS WOULD BE APPROPRIATE IN COURT AS A INEFFECTIVE PHYSICAL WEAPON COULD BE ALLOWED BECAUSE MUCH SUPERIOR WEAPONS WERE PRESENT WITH THE GAURDS TO PROTECT THE RULERS. THE SYMBOLS ON THE HANDLE WOULD THEN PROTECT THE WEARER FROM EVIL SPIRITS AND SUCH ( THERE ARE ALWAYS PLENTY OF EVIL SPIRITS IN PLACES OF POWER ).
JUST MY THOUGHTS AND CONJECTURE BUT PERHAPS A LITTLE MORE INFORMATION MAY BE FOUND SEARCHING IN THAT DIRECTION.

Salaams VANDOO, Agreed. My point is that this weapon originated as a defender of the faith (Buddhism) and naturally with sword in hand surrounded about the Makara hilt by Makara and other supporting Buddhist Icons the weilding soldier is thus enhanced with all things religious and holy. It remains to be disclosed in my next missive where the missing piece of the jigsaw (or one of them) that of the terminology and the quandry of what's in a name...? Which I shall concoct in a few hours ~ I have to say however that running into the entire Hindu and Buddhist equation is no simple matter and from a cold start it has been all uphill.

Thanks for the idea for research along those lines... and for me one other idea was to research the Martial Arts angle for which it would be vital to be in Sri Lanka. I noted earlier that the Sri Lankan martial art Angopora is thousands of years old and it looks like they used Kastana. Interestingly it would need to be called something else prior to the European appearance since the word appears to be largely Portuguese.. more on that in a few hours.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by fernando

Olá Ibrahiim,
How soon your next post will be?

Salaams fernando and all ~ My reference (as well as the Forum library) is Indian Art by Roy C Craven ~ World of Art Series~ Thames and Hudson. ISBN 0-500-20146-3.

The time line is vast; Hinduism is more than 4000 years old whilst Buddhism started inbetween 566 and 486 BC. The arrival of the Portuguese and their influence upon Sri Lanka started in the 1500s. Therefor there is a quantum jump between the vast timescales but that is what makes this so interesting a roller coaster.

On page 29 of Reference Professor Craven points out that the Aryans in 1500 BC had settled in Northern India and thus began the culture amalgamation of the Vedic style with that of the vanquished dark skinned Dravidians. After gradually intermarrying and consolidation the Aryans spread South Eastwards from their initial conquests of the Indus Valley and the Punjab taking the Ganges and Jumna rivers plains ~ an area called the Doab....

They brought with them a concept of religion based on sacrifice to Deities which mirrored the forces of nature. Their social structure emanating from their religion was essentially heirarcical and is better known now as the caste system. The word itself (caste) comes from the Portuguese word castas but was first used in the 16th Century. The Aryans actually used a different word Varna; meaning colour.

I intend to show that the word for Caste "Castas" was the word root which inspired the term Castane but first a word on the Sri Lankan Caste System~

Whereas the Indian system was quite brutal the Sri Lankan version was not. It was mild by comparison but one thing is obvious in tracing the craftsmen of the island and their sects or castes which were quite strict; Goldsmiths, silversmiths swordsmiths, precious stone polishers, diamond cutters, rhino hilt makers, coppersmiths, engravers, furnace operators, bladesmiths, scabbard decorators, leatherworkers, woodworkers and labourers all belonged to different Castes and as such can be thought of as Guilds..

More than a dozen Castes were employed to make the Castane and I believe it is this that drew the name Castas as the original Portuguese word for this sword. In honour of the many guilds(Castes) of crafsmen employed in its making.

180 Degree Turn ! If this is in fact the case my entire hypothesis of the Castane being a purebred Sri Lankan sword pre the Portuguese appearance flies out the window now.

The problems with the pre Portuguese idea are:

1. No Castane, pre-Portuguese, exists in any museum or on any drawing, painting or sculpture in any medium; wood, metal or stone in itself very strange since stone freize panels depict so much historical content and an important sword like that would be sure to be included.

2. No Castane existed under that name before the Portuguese influence since it was a word given by them to the Sri Lankans.

3. It would be highly unlikely that a respected Buddhist sword would be re named by an incoming invader, raider, occupier especially one with an entirely different religious structure. A renamed sword of that style would surely be recorded but there is no trace.

I now conclude that the real reason is because pre the Portuguese period no such sword existed in Sri Lanka...we have been chasing shadows.

My second but fresh hypothesis thus reads ~

The Castane, named so by the Portuguese, was introduced designed and built with Portuguese collaboration in Royal workshops in Sri Lanka in the late 1500/early1600s... and variously afterwards for many centuries. The Portuguese part of the design may have introduced the basic hilt shape and cutlass fashion popular in Mediterranean forms whilst the main theme came from the Sri Lankan design taken from Buddhist structures in history encompassing Makara, supporting Deities and Buddhist ritual-item related Quillons (as at #115).

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[fernando]

Olá Ibrahiim,
Evidence of the origin of the term caste and the assumption that there aren't any recorded kastanes before Portuguese arrival is one thing ... and the appearing of the sword and its given name as a result of Portuguese influence, is another.
... A missing link that you now well call hypothesis... a fresh one.
But then, entering the field of hypotheses, why not give a chance to that of the down curved quillons being a remnant of Portuguese swords characteristics ? Not to speak of that of the term Kastane deriving from Katana, the Japanese sword that appeared in the XIV century and which name was incorporated in the Portuguese language in the XVI century, after their arrival in Japan. We know that, once the term became (also) portuguese, was widely used in other continents and applied in a general sense to various types of edged weapons. Why then not possible that this was the way the Kastane got its name ... either given by Portuguese or even Cingalese ?

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by fernando

Olá Ibrahiim,
Evidence of the origin of the term caste and the assumption that there aren't any recorded kastanes before Portuguese arrival is one thing ... and the appearing of the sword and its given name as a result of Portuguese influence, is another.
... A missing link that you now well call hypothesis... a fresh one.
But then, entering the field of hypotheses, why not give a chance to that of the down curved quillons being a remnant of Portuguese swords characteristics ? Not to speak of that of the term Kastane deriving from Katana, the Japanese sword that appeared in the XIV century and which name was incorporated in the Portuguese language in the XVI century, after their arrival in Japan. We know that, once the term became (also) portuguese, was widely used in other continents and applied in a general sense to various types of edged weapons. Why then not possible that this was the way the Kastane got its name ... either given by Portuguese or even Cingalese ?

Salaams fernando ~ I agree entirely with your first paragraph and suggest that it is vital to the new hypothesis..Your paragraph 2 is also astute...I am indeed saying that the influence is from the Jinetta turned down quillon style but supplanted rather by the Buddhist emblems Nagas or minor Deities and a style taken directly from #115; The Tibettan connection.

The point about Japanese influence is one I have thought of only on passing..It's perhaps a bit of a stretch...and probably falls into the general area of "whats in a word"? Its a bit thin but at the same time thoroughly interesting; Kastane, Kattara, Katana, Kattar? Conversely I must say that the Jinnetta link now becomes stronger and that Portuguese-Sri Lankan cooperation in weapons manufacture may hold the key. When I mentioned Mediterranean influence I meant Portuguese as below...


The Castane, named so by the Portuguese, was introduced designed and built with Portuguese collaboration in Royal workshops in Sri Lanka in the late 1500/early1600s... and variously afterwards for many centuries. The Portuguese part of the design may have introduced the basic hilt shape and cutlass fashion popular in Portuguese/Spanish Jinetta forms whilst the main theme came from the Sri Lankan design taken from Buddhist structures in history encompassing Makara, supporting Deities and Buddhist ritual-item related Quillons (as at #115).

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[ariel]

Well, as I said earlier, finding of a pre-Portugese Kastane was the absolutely-required piece of evidence. If there is no such example in existence, we are back to the drawing board...

Another example of the great tragedy of science: a beautiful Hypothesis slain by an ugly Fact:-)


Ibrahim, keep searching: it is not always revealing, but it is a lot of fun!

Be well and prosper, my friend!

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by ariel

Well, as I said earlier, finding of a pre-Portugese Kastane was the absolutely-required piece of evidence. If there is no such example in existence, we are back to the drawing board...

Another example of the great tragedy of science: a beautiful Hypothesis slain by an ugly Fact:-)


Ibrahim, keep searching: it is not always revealing, but it is a lot of fun!

Be well and prosper, my friend!

Salaams Ariel ~ Well yes and no. My first hypothesis is outweighed by the fact that, as you say, there is no evidence to support a pre Portuguese Kastane ... but there is a load of it supporting their involvement in naming the weapon and being involved in weapons production with the Sri Lankan masters after they set foot on the Island. I therefor supplant my first effort with a more proven logical and sound re appraisal as;

The Castane, named so by the Portuguese, was introduced designed and built with Portuguese collaboration in Royal workshops in Sri Lanka in the late 1500/early1600s... and variously afterwards for many centuries. The Portuguese part of the design may have introduced the basic hilt shape and *cutlass fashion popular in Portuguese/Spanish Jinetta forms whilst the main theme came from the Sri Lankan design taken from Buddhist structures in history encompassing Makara, supporting Deities and Buddhist ritual-item related Quillons (as at #115).

*I will stick with that for now and add that the reason for the inclusion of the words cutlass fashion is to net in the similar curved short Nimcha style (and assuming a cutlass action of a short ships sword).

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

...The point about Japanese influence is one I have thought of only on passing..It's perhaps a bit of a stretch... The Portuguese part of the design may have introduced the basic hilt shape and cutlass fashion popular in Portuguese/Spanish Jinetta forms whilst the main theme came from the Sri Lankan design taken from Buddhist structures in history encompassing Makara, supporting Deities and Buddhist ritual-item related Quillons (as at #115). ...

Talking of (quoting you) a bit of stretch; i would consider such fusion thesis also a long shot. Would rather bet in one "one or another" influence.
And by the way, i wouldn’t include the jineta in this championship. This wouldn’t be the origin for the (false) quillons on the Kastane. Such sword already had its characteristic form when the Nasrid brought it to Al Andaluz by the XIII century; their fallen “arriaces” were born like that and would be nothing but a decor, or in the least with no practical use . Neither could we call it Portuguese or Spanish, although it became later christianized, with its production ceasing in Toledo by the XV century. Whether its consequent variants were the reason for the appearing of the actual (finger) defense quillons is another issue; but the sword that was brought by (Portuguese) navigators to Ceylon had actual functional ample curved quillons, those to protect fingers holding the ricasso which, according to some opinion sources, were ‘shrunk’ by Cingalese smiths in their sword (Kastane) models, as not intended for their fencing (handling) techniques.
But don't take my perspective in such worthwhile position; i am just trying to help maintaining the (hypo)thesis contradictory .


.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by fernando

Talking of (quoting you) a bit of stretch; i would consider such fusion thesis also a long shot. Would rather bet in one "one or another" influence.
And by the way, i wouldn’t include the jineta in this championship. This wouldn’t be the origin for the (false) quillons on the Kastane. Such sword already had its characteristic form when the Nasrid brought it to Al Andaluz by the XIII century; their fallen “arriaces” were born like that and would be nothing but a decor, or in the least with no practical use . Neither could we call it Portuguese or Spanish, although it became later christianized, with its production ceasing in Toledo by the XV century. Whether its consequent variants were the reason for the appearing of the actual (finger) defense quillons is another issue; but the sword that was brought by (Portuguese) navigators to Ceylon had actual functional ample curved quillons, those to protect fingers holding the ricasso which, according to some opinion sources, were ‘shrunk’ by Cingalese smiths in their sword (Kastane) models, as not intended for their fencing (handling) techniques.
But don't take my perspective in such worthwhile position; i am just trying to help maintaining the (hypo)thesis contradictory .


.

Salaams Fernando. Your picture is an excellent illustration of what I feel is, in part, the origin of species concerning the design of the Kastane. The Quillons however on the Kastane are more a take off from the ritual Tibettan item. The hilt is purely Buddhist. Thus the blended style.

I don't believe they are actually Quillons but in the likeness of Quillons, though, actually from the Vajra item; #115.

There is simply no evidence of a pre Portuguese Kastane in Sri Lanka..What appears as highly probable is Portuguese battleships rolling up with artisans and weapon masters on board and a liaison between the Sri Lankan Royal Households combining both weapons into the Kastane; fusing two styles viz;

The Buddhist influenced Makara hilt, Knuckle Guard, Guard and "Quillons" (so called) and the Portuguese sword style thus became blended.

We know that liaison took place in weapons workshops because your own picture earlier of the Makara or Naga on the locks of the long guns; #66 second photo.

In terms of other Eastern influence; No evidence presents itself in terms of Japanese/Portuguese influence. The weapons are completely different.

In terms of wording; The two closest words relating to Kastane are Castao and Castas. Castao meaning stick is surely a non starter since how can a precious stone encrusted, hugely rare, gilded and silver engraved masterpiece be simply called a stick? Logic seems to point to the richer more understandable conclusion that Castas (master crafted) is more likely. I have illustrated the link between Caste and Guilds of Master craftsmen previously.

My hypothesis stands, though, broadly enhanced with your superb photo.


Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Note; For excellent pictures of Kastane see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...4&page=1&pp=30