African Three-Dagger sets

[Lew]

Vandoo the set with the cows head mace that mace is Indo Persian even though it is old. I just find these sets to be ceremonial rather than for combat the blades are very thin with no discernible edge. You often see Kaskara with this type on thuluth writing on the blade and they have dull edges also. There were a lot of British soldiers in the Sudan at the turn of the 19th-20th century. I just think some savvy locals found ways of supplying them with battle field keepsakes. It's amazing how many of these sets I have seen over the years.

Lew

[ariel]

Nothing in relation to the presented weapons. Everybody has personal tastes and preferences. I have mine.
Personally, I cringe when I see such scabbards, especially kaskaras with the scabbards made from a whole croc. Will never buy a dagger with a deer foot for a handle. Even worse, I shudder when I see powder flasks made out of dried camel or other mammal ( ) scrotum. Ascribe it to male solidarity or to Ziggy Freud.
NB: I am a dedicated carnivorous. But those examples revolt me. Never discussed it with a psychologist. Never had a psychologist. This is just my private quirk, and I am happy to live with it.

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by ariel

Never had a psychologist.

This explains quite alot...

[ariel]

But then... no malpractice lawyer either:-)

[Iain]

Originally Posted by Lew

Vandoo the set with the cows head mace that mace is Indo Persian even though it is old. I just find these sets to be ceremonial rather than for combat the blades are very thin with no discernible edge. You often see Kaskara with this type on thuluth writing on the blade and they have dull edges also. There were a lot of British soldiers in the Sudan at the turn of the 19th-20th century. I just think some savvy locals found ways of supplying them with battle field keepsakes. It's amazing how many of these sets I have seen over the years.

Lew

What Lew said. There are a lot of thin bladed kaskara and daggers with no edge. Almost always with thuluth - that is not to say all thuluth items are perhaps not intended for use. But I would be very hard pressed to imagine that some these examples were not made for those who travel, although that is not to say all were. We have seen in the past some very odd kaskara that seem to have originated from Egypt, this may be the case with some of these items as well.

The post card in this thread showing one of these sets, looks to be a staged scene. A popular practice I believe at the time, from the range of items scattered around I have to wonder if the photographer supplied the "props" or if the men in the photo brought their own... The former possibility would unfortunately cast some doubt on using this photo as a solid reference for the tribal use of these dagger sets.

On the other hand, as badges of office and command these would make sense. Did you have any luck digging up a reference on that David? I'm intrigued - it's been a while since we had a good discussion on here about thuluth stuff!

[Gavin Nugent]

It is nice to see this thread take a turn for the better, some interesting aspects have been shown.

Lew, your collection, the images are present but not identified for readers...with all being in a cleaned state and patina as such being all pretty much the same, what image relates to what time period?

With regards to non sharpened weapons, ceremonial context could be considered... but as for a sword not being effective because it is not sharpened, go grab a 3mm thick x 40mm wide piece of flat bar a metre long and give your self a gentle tap on the head and you'll see how soft the human body really it... now put some for in to it and see what happens to your head....with this region in particular where armour was rarely seen even a ceremonial sword could become offensive if required.
Very fine provenanced examples I have had with very fine trade blades of a combat nature, whilst having edges, they were never really sharp at all...which leads me to ask to what degree were they ever sharpened?

As for these dagger, tourist, ceremonial or real, if swiped with force across the skin with these curved points, you better be looking for a doctor because humans are soft.

Gav

[Lew]

Gav

I updated the description on my pics in my previous post. As to your comment on non sharpened blades on Kaskara I own about five and all but the one with were made for combat and exhibit sharp edges even the boys kaskara with the Ferara blade. In any warrior based society you would never find unsharpened blades unless they were for ceremony. The Samurai, Moros and Sikhs would never be caught dead without a sharp blade.

[A.alnakkas]

Well I see the suggestion that these can be a part of ceremonial use. The question is, what ceremony?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mn2V_9QEmqQ

Here is a ceremonial dance. As you can see, they are using some well made kaskaras and not much thuluth sheet steel blades :-)

[Lew]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Well I see the suggestion that these can be a part of ceremonial use. The question is, what ceremony?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mn2V_9QEmqQ

Here is a ceremonial dance. As you can see, they are using some well made kaskaras and not much thuluth sheet steel blades :-)

Well maybe not ceremonial per say but maybe they were used as talisman for protection in battle? Otherwise my original theory still stands that these were made as keepsakes for the British to take back home. There is one high quality dagger that Charles bought years ago maybe he still has a picture of it he can post?