American Eagle Head Sabre

Hotspur · 9th November 2012, 09:16 AM

Well, I think I would digress a far distance from the original ID part of this but let's just say it the evolution for the American market really started after the revolution and the Great Seal was being broadly published. Since that form was not finalized until late 1782, it is then really not until the 1790s that we start to see both larger birds and eagle blade decoration starting to appear.

Ironically, the bald eagle is not even well represented in the first Great Seal portraits with more and more created eagles appearing on the horizon.

Ketland was an arms broker as much as a manufacturer and the swords were not even made in his shops. Guns were his stock in trade on that end of the equation. Birmingham had many shops churning out parts for the swords before the war of 1812 and even during that conflict, swords were still getting through to America from England. Manifested as barrels and trunks of canes and umbrellas, ports on the eastern seaboard of America received throughout the war.

To complicate the large and small Ketland profile even further is when we see Berger from the Alsace and his Paris shop making smal head versions of the British castings. Bigger is better, so the larger crested eagles that are quite close in profile to the original form start appearing. Some directly from the continent and ala Salter S&K as agents, there is a fair amount of swapping going on.

I am not prepared to upload a lot more pictures in this thread, as I am on dial up but also that we will digress further. The Medicus collection book and Mowbray eagle book, along with Peter Tuite's naval book and the Hartzler Lattimer collection will show as much variety as any might then further explore. I can point the way and disagree at times but have no book of my own to offer at this time.

Here is an anomalous Berger pretty baby and an original Ketland type for comparison. Was it Starr shown in Medicus that also had a Ketland form? I forget. These are a good bit smaller than the later crested birds.

Cheers

GC

Norman McCormick · 10th November 2012, 05:45 PM

Hi Glen,
I did a swop for this sword but it was purchased at an auction in England in a lot with a 'cutlass thought to be American'. The buyer wanted the cutlass but not the eagle head and I had something he wanted so we exchanged. I'm afraid that is the only info re provenance I have.
I came across another couple of conflicts which would fit inside the time frame 1830's/40's, the Black Hawk War and the Texas Revolution. I noticed that the inside right angle on the simpler guards differ from plain to being accented with various small decorative details, wondering if this is a possible pointer to origin. Finally, I'm sure you will be aware of this little paper but here is a link anyway www.asoac.org/bulletins/92_bethune_patriotic.pdf
Thanks again for your time and effort on this.
My Regards,
Norman.

Hotspur · 10th November 2012, 07:38 PM

Quote:

I noticed that the inside right angle on the simpler guards differ from plain to being accented with various small decorative details, wondering if this is a possible pointer to origin

As much a matter of timeline perhaps. I think I did mention that parts from one side were openly shared, so origin of the final assembly might be better regarded when looking at the blade decoration. Coincidentally, I came across yet another like yours and while considering the blade decoration, I would still say that one as well British B&G. If you can share more of your blade decoration, others may have an opinion as to whether we are seeing a British or German decorated blade.

Yes, I am familiar with the asoac article and some of it is considered outdated, just as some older sword bibles are. Was there a particular part of the article you note that is relevant to this sword? Do you have the E.Alexander Mowbray eagle pommel sword book? While the latter does not specifically speak to this form, It reads well in terms f commerce and distribution.

I am sending you a link via pm for the one I saw just today while browsing a dealer.

Cheers

GC

9th November 2012, 09:16 AM	#1
Hotspur Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nipmuc USA Posts: 508	Well, I think I would digress a far distance from the original ID part of this but let's just say it the evolution for the American market really started after the revolution and the Great Seal was being broadly published. Since that form was not finalized until late 1782, it is then really not until the 1790s that we start to see both larger birds and eagle blade decoration starting to appear. Ironically, the bald eagle is not even well represented in the first Great Seal portraits with more and more created eagles appearing on the horizon. Ketland was an arms broker as much as a manufacturer and the swords were not even made in his shops. Guns were his stock in trade on that end of the equation. Birmingham had many shops churning out parts for the swords before the war of 1812 and even during that conflict, swords were still getting through to America from England. Manifested as barrels and trunks of canes and umbrellas, ports on the eastern seaboard of America received throughout the war. To complicate the large and small Ketland profile even further is when we see Berger from the Alsace and his Paris shop making smal head versions of the British castings. Bigger is better, so the larger crested eagles that are quite close in profile to the original form start appearing. Some directly from the continent and ala Salter S&K as agents, there is a fair amount of swapping going on. I am not prepared to upload a lot more pictures in this thread, as I am on dial up but also that we will digress further. The Medicus collection book and Mowbray eagle book, along with Peter Tuite's naval book and the Hartzler Lattimer collection will show as much variety as any might then further explore. I can point the way and disagree at times but have no book of my own to offer at this time. Here is an anomalous Berger pretty baby and an original Ketland type for comparison. Was it Starr shown in Medicus that also had a Ketland form? I forget. These are a good bit smaller than the later crested birds. Cheers GC Attached Images Last edited by Hotspur; 9th November 2012 at 09:30 AM.

10th November 2012, 05:45 PM	#2
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,613	Hi Glen, I did a swop for this sword but it was purchased at an auction in England in a lot with a 'cutlass thought to be American'. The buyer wanted the cutlass but not the eagle head and I had something he wanted so we exchanged. I'm afraid that is the only info re provenance I have. I came across another couple of conflicts which would fit inside the time frame 1830's/40's, the Black Hawk War and the Texas Revolution. I noticed that the inside right angle on the simpler guards differ from plain to being accented with various small decorative details, wondering if this is a possible pointer to origin. Finally, I'm sure you will be aware of this little paper but here is a link anyway www.asoac.org/bulletins/92_bethune_patriotic.pdf Thanks again for your time and effort on this. My Regards, Norman.