American Eagle Head Sabre

[Hotspur]

Hi Norman

These can be tricky to distinguish from where distribution/export to America happened. At first glance, I would say undoubtedly one of the Solingen consortium but then in seeing the bit of the blade decoration, the B&G looks like that was done in England. With S&K and other agents in England, it is not hard to figure at least parts of the sword were Prussian made. The spiral bone also more an English cutler trait. look close at the spine of the blade at the base and see if there is a little squiggle f a couple of lines.

This is of the floating big head and although similar to the "Ketland" bird. I would think generally speaking it belongs to the 1830s or perhaps a little earlier.

I am still (in a rather erstwhile fashion) looking at John Salter & Co of England, who really as a name belongs to an earlier period but the company remained as an exporter of swords to America well into the 1830s.

The blade decoration of blue&gilt another consideration for a possible time but blades were made and decorated, then held in stock with some of this fasion still turing up in the 1840s and even later.

The Prussian big head crested eagles do start to appear by 1812 but the b&g traits on the blades themselves can help to determine an early style vs post 1812 blades.

E.Alexander Mowbray, author of the early/federal period of eagle head pommels book really does not go into this family, as even his and other's thoughts place them after his 1830 benchmark for the book. He does allude to heads like the "Ketland" but not as directly associated.

Mowbray the younger and Flayderman then assemble the Medicus collection of swords and both leave a lot of leeway for speculation/investigation that still goes on. Both Solingen and Birmingham had so many shops going that it is only when a sword is specifically marked to a maker that some do get pigeon holed as Mowbray the elder did. Forever since, his chapters become a basic typology often based on a single marked sword.

My big head backstrap eagle has a definitely Prussian blade and decoration, as well as possibly a good bit earlier b ut the slim blade will always make me wonder. This one possibly from the Knecht family and maybe the 1820s.

Cheers

GC

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you Glen for the great information on these! As Norman has noted, it is typically pretty difficult to find useful and pertinant material on these distinctive swords from a cold search, and I had hoped you would respond as these American sword topics are profoundly your field.

[Hotspur]

You are welcome Jim. Eagles are pretty much a passion for me and while the later swords less recognized at times, a period I try to make sense of. Both the floating big crested and backstrap big head show up in British guise but I am certain many of the castings start in Solingen.

The example I showed with the backstrap has the mouth opened up but the profile of the big heads undeniably similar between backstrap and floaters.

Here is a floating pommel like Norman's that is similar to the A.W.Spies of New York swords. Spies was an apprentice as a teen in the Wolfe family shop of New York. He then went abroad to Birmingham and learned the business of export as well as cutlery but he was mostly interested in the import to his business which would blossom on his own.

There is some information I am compiling about Spies and had at one point started a thread over at SFI. I have some false conclusions of my own even in that thread but the framework is there.
http://www.swordforum.com/forums/sho...les-and-others

So anyway, a big head floater ala Spies and Salter, undoubtedly from England but we know Solingen is makeing birds like this. I have several Spies marked backstrap examples and the big head floating pommels seem to be a lot less common to find. I can't say that makes them earlier or later but they were (perhaps) to mimic the screaming eagles of Ames which had floating pommels and the spiral or slash marked grips. The Ames artillery sabres and infantry spadroons are of this period.

I will add some more examples of the floaters but I knew where to find this one in my Spies folder (I have some more scattered about in unsorted folders). I have a run to do today for my eyes to look for any floaters in the vitreous. This example may even be marked by a separate retailer but I'll have to look closer at that blade. The rest identical to several marked by Spies.

Cheers

GC

[Hotspur]

Also just to mention that they really do look like the older Ketland form and in time might be considered as a followup to the form as a type III but there is already enough confusion just between pre 1812 Ketland types and post war in the smaller head classification. Then you get into how much chasing of a casting a given shop might be doing.

Cheers

GC

[Norman McCormick]

Hi Glen,
First of all many thanks for your time and effort in attempting to educate a poor Brit on the knotty subject of American Eagles. I have gone over the sword from top to bottom with the proverbial 'fine tooth comb' but cannot find any mark or sign that would provide a clue as to origins. I like the idea that it might be of English manufacture. You mention the spiral bone grip and I must say I've spent a few hours on the net looking at 'Eagle Heads' and have not found one with the same pattern spiralling. It would be nice to pin down a date as it would enable me to speculate in which conflicts it may have participated in but I can see from your posts that this is much easier said than done. I look forward to your other examples of 'floating heads'. Thanks again.
My Regards,
Norman.

P.S. The second example you show has a very similar blade profile and angle of hilt to blade as mine, I don't know whether this is of consequence or not.

[Hotspur]

Hi Norman

Something else you may have to consider if your sword was sold on your side of the pond would be; "What is an American sword of that period doing abroad?" One chapter of Mowbray's eagle book begins with an example of a sword specifically made for a Scotsman. Perhaps you can fill in some blanks yourself on how you came to own the sword and where it had come from.

In America, other warring aside from the war of 1812 and up to the American Civil war would be notably the Seminole wars and the Mexican War. Throughout the interbellum periods were standing militia, as was also true in the UK.

Swords were made up of many standard parts, some fancier than others. Often times there would have been a basic catalog of options, as well as "floor models" to choose from. I have already alluded to that the large head floating pommels are less common post 1812 but showed you an example while mentioning I have more in my own bank of images. You now bring up the spiral grip as uncommon and I agree but could list a few in my own files. MOst of this general time period and in a romp through one of my misc folders have a good match to your own sword. What does that mean in terms of scarcity? Not much. When you find a couple, chances are that if persistent they seem to come out of the woodwork.

I mention in another post that eagles are a passion. That I have some 6,300 eagle sword image files in 41 folders must mean something. Divide roughly by whatever and that would still be many more than six hundred swords I am in the process of categorizing. Consider my prime focus of the eagle pommels to be those up to the war of 1812 and of three basic forms (Bolton, Osborn, Ketland), I will never have half the answers to a good many questions. Narrowing to a couple of decades should be an achievement and as you had already considered the 1830s, I think you may not have just been guessing.

The langets might also point to Solingen as opposed to England but again, the blade decoration too Birmingham blue&gilt to disregard. The example I showed above has noo langets and a good many British made swords for the American market had no langets. That trait also prevelant in American manufacture. On that note, I seriously doubt it is American cutlered and eveb the Spies marked blades decorated and marked at that time in England, as that is how they were ordered.

Along with your spiral big head, I'll also scare up an British made Ames imitator with a spiral grip. So close an imitator of the Ames swords that I was fooled in the beginning myself. That conflict worth a whole thread by itself someday but brought up here in the past. Why do I know that one British and not American Ames? More study and observation to be related someday.
This one most assuredly the mid to late 1830s.

Oh, ok, I lied. Here is one I am pretty sure was an Ames eagle casting but on a Mexican sword (Ames did collaborate with Mexico before the war.

Cheers

GC

[M ELEY]

Awesome pics and an excellent thread! Full of great information and pics on these type swords. I like the one with the Span colonial 6-sided broadsword blade. It's truly amazing just how many variations in the fittings and blades there are. Hope this thread continues to grow-