Please help me identify these.

erlikhan · 18th September 2005, 09:49 PM

Others can know much better than me, I am not an Indian arms specialist at all, but as far as I have seen on ebay, and in real, general rules for today's factory produced Indian arms are:

Almost all of them have dull edges (not dulled down later, they have been just produced dull, cause otherwise it would cost higher, and would carry rsome risk of damaging the blade). They have thick sheets of blades with already dull edges.
The pattern is not hand forged but factory machine produced. All newly made ones have this kind of pattern. Antique patterns are quite different . Factory damascus flowlines can continue whole bladeway like in your pictures but hand forged ones cant do that. ( I hope more experienced friends here can confirm me or correct if I am wrong).
Most of the all-metal kind new arms have exactly this kind of silver koftgari. They are very skillful in covering everything they wish full with koftgari for really cheap costs, no problem for them.
Again, I am not an expert on the field and I cant bet on it, and hope to see comments of real Indian arms experts in the forum as I wonder if my informations are correct or not, and I hope they confirm the authenticity of your items.
regards

erlikhan · 18th September 2005, 09:56 PM

ahh. i see that spiral has moved before me

. I hope you didnt pay high for them.

CPT Kight · 18th September 2005, 10:47 PM

Thank you for your help gentlemen, I have gone to the web sites that were mentioned and have indeed learned form the experience. (By the way did you know that “Crow” tastes like chicken.)
I stand corrected / educated your choice. It would appear that as with most of the things I have learned from this particular trip abroad that things are seldom as they first appear.
In your service CPT Kight.

PS I paid $150.00 for one knife $135.00 for the second and $400.00 for the sword, all within reason for my display I think.

Yannis · 19th September 2005, 09:04 AM

I had seen it in Afghanistan and here it is again. Masses of soldiers are good customers for "antique" swords and knifes. If these things are not enough there is always a clever man who import them from China or India.

Specially these damascus are looking damn good. Few years ago I had bought a couple of pieces.

Jens Nordlunde · 19th September 2005, 10:28 AM

Hi CPT Knight,

Don’t worry; all of us have, at one time or another bought a newer piece, although our intention was to buy an old one. Have a look for something like this one.

wilked aka Khun Deng · 19th September 2005, 01:05 PM

They will be wonderful mementos of a capstone event in your life. Much better than a wooden plaque with a few plastic trickets attached. Something you will able to look back at with pride over the years. What price is that worth? Take the lesson learned along with your experiences and pass it on as others before you have.

Keep your head down, bring your guys back alive and watch out for those parked cars Bro!

CW4 Dan Wilke 1/1 SFG(A)

P.S. It does taste like chicken as most of us well know

Jim McDougall · 19th September 2005, 03:44 PM

I agree with much of what the guys are saying, simply because these pieces are not truly antique, they seem high quality representations of swords that carry long histories from Islamic regions. You should definitely keep them as mementos of your service there, and in time they will have histories of thier own.In my opinion, aesthetically these are all very attractive pieces.
Over many years of collecting I have pieces that, while not of stellar value to other collectors, have become personal favorites because they have become lifetime mementos. The prices you paid do not seem out of line for these representations which appear reasonably well made.

I'm glad you are with us here on the forum, and hope you keep in touch with us here and join our discussions of so many fascinating edged weapons. Every day is a learning experience for all of us here as we share newly discovered weapons and information and discuss all!

In noting your being there in Iraq, I just would like to tell you how proud we are of you guys, and the incredibly magnificent job you are doing over there.I work here in an international airport and I can tell you firsthand of how true that is because I see so many of you every day, and I cannot begin to tell you the many moving moments I see and experience. I have a son and a son in law both in the Army, one will deploy in weeks with 82nd Airborne, the other with disposition pending. Our prayers are with them, and all of you, as you are all sons and daughters of all of us, be safe and God be with you.

With respect and gratitude,
Jim

18th September 2005, 09:49 PM	#1
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	Others can know much better than me, I am not an Indian arms specialist at all, but as far as I have seen on ebay, and in real, general rules for today's factory produced Indian arms are: Almost all of them have dull edges (not dulled down later, they have been just produced dull, cause otherwise it would cost higher, and would carry rsome risk of damaging the blade). They have thick sheets of blades with already dull edges. The pattern is not hand forged but factory machine produced. All newly made ones have this kind of pattern. Antique patterns are quite different . Factory damascus flowlines can continue whole bladeway like in your pictures but hand forged ones cant do that. ( I hope more experienced friends here can confirm me or correct if I am wrong). Most of the all-metal kind new arms have exactly this kind of silver koftgari. They are very skillful in covering everything they wish full with koftgari for really cheap costs, no problem for them. Again, I am not an expert on the field and I cant bet on it, and hope to see comments of real Indian arms experts in the forum as I wonder if my informations are correct or not, and I hope they confirm the authenticity of your items. regards Last edited by erlikhan; 19th September 2005 at 10:41 AM.

18th September 2005, 09:56 PM	#2
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	ahh. i see that spiral has moved before me . I hope you didnt pay high for them. Last edited by erlikhan; 19th September 2005 at 07:04 AM.

18th September 2005, 10:47 PM	#3
CPT Kight Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 3	Crow tastes like chicken Thank you for your help gentlemen, I have gone to the web sites that were mentioned and have indeed learned form the experience. (By the way did you know that “Crow” tastes like chicken.) I stand corrected / educated your choice. It would appear that as with most of the things I have learned from this particular trip abroad that things are seldom as they first appear. In your service CPT Kight. PS I paid $150.00 for one knife $135.00 for the second and $400.00 for the sword, all within reason for my display I think.

19th September 2005, 10:28 AM	#5
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi CPT Knight, Don’t worry; all of us have, at one time or another bought a newer piece, although our intention was to buy an old one. Have a look for something like this one. Attached Images

19th September 2005, 01:05 PM	#6
wilked aka Khun Deng Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oahu, Hawaii Posts: 166	Helping the economic development of Iraq They will be wonderful mementos of a capstone event in your life. Much better than a wooden plaque with a few plastic trickets attached. Something you will able to look back at with pride over the years. What price is that worth? Take the lesson learned along with your experiences and pass it on as others before you have. Keep your head down, bring your guys back alive and watch out for those parked cars Bro! CW4 Dan Wilke 1/1 SFG(A) P.S. It does taste like chicken as most of us well know

19th September 2005, 09:04 AM	#4
Yannis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Athens Greece Posts: 479	I had seen it in Afghanistan and here it is again. Masses of soldiers are good customers for "antique" swords and knifes. If these things are not enough there is always a clever man who import them from China or India. Specially these damascus are looking damn good. Few years ago I had bought a couple of pieces.

19th September 2005, 03:44 PM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	I agree with much of what the guys are saying, simply because these pieces are not truly antique, they seem high quality representations of swords that carry long histories from Islamic regions. You should definitely keep them as mementos of your service there, and in time they will have histories of thier own.In my opinion, aesthetically these are all very attractive pieces. Over many years of collecting I have pieces that, while not of stellar value to other collectors, have become personal favorites because they have become lifetime mementos. The prices you paid do not seem out of line for these representations which appear reasonably well made. I'm glad you are with us here on the forum, and hope you keep in touch with us here and join our discussions of so many fascinating edged weapons. Every day is a learning experience for all of us here as we share newly discovered weapons and information and discuss all! In noting your being there in Iraq, I just would like to tell you how proud we are of you guys, and the incredibly magnificent job you are doing over there.I work here in an international airport and I can tell you firsthand of how true that is because I see so many of you every day, and I cannot begin to tell you the many moving moments I see and experience. I have a son and a son in law both in the Army, one will deploy in weeks with 82nd Airborne, the other with disposition pending. Our prayers are with them, and all of you, as you are all sons and daughters of all of us, be safe and God be with you. With respect and gratitude, Jim