Yemeni Sayfs? Omani Kattaras?

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Thank you so much Ibrahiim for this excellent and detailed coverage which reiterates the intricacies of these terms as used in Arabia, and Oman in particular on this group of sometimes closely associated swords.

What I like the most, as a researcher on historic edged weapons for many years myself, is that you have yourself promoted advancing knowledge and adding informative material on these weapon forms. I think that is what makes this forum great is how these topics get discussed in detail, and we can all evaluate and assess the material into the perspective we need to effectively gain better understanding of development and terminology on these forms.

I had forgotten previous discussions with regard to the sayf Yemeni, which it appears these swords posted by Johnny would be classified if I understand correctly. It is my impression these are versions of the Omani kattara (sayf)
as described as the cylindrically hilted, guardless broadswords for higher echelon and prominant merchants in Oman and of course Zanzibar. It is interesting that these Yemeni versions carry similar hilts, with the peaked cylinder or domed pommel resembling the Ibaathi swords of Oman's interior and from quite early date in a traditional form hilts.

I have long believed personally that the profound presence of Omani merchants and traders beyond Zanzibar into Africas interior may have provided influence to similarly hilted swords such as the seme of Kenya's Maasai and the guardless sabres of the Manding in Mali. Naturally these may have developed through diffusion and influence rather than direct contact with the Omanis themselves.

Returning to the forms of 'kattara', both straight broadsword and the curved forms, it is interesting to note the use of the term for the curved swords of this type hilt as well. I am still unclear of the use of this term for the short sabres which often fall into the 'nimcha' heading, often seen in maritime circumstances. The nimcha term is often incorrectly applied, particularly in the Maghreb, where the sabres known by that term and typically mounted with trade or foreign blades, many long and straight, are called nimcha.

The forms of 'nimcha' referred to in Butin as from Zanzibar, typically with a characteristic ring projecting from the crossguard, seem to have been prevalent in Yemen and probably in other Omani ports of call. These I have always seen termed 'nimcha' and but not kattara, but like many terms, the collectors venue has often dictated terms colloquially accepted, whether correct or not.

My earlier comments on these four Yemeni sayfs were presuming from photos that these blades were the typically more modern Omani produced thin blades for the dancing type swords. As has been noted, these appear to be heavier combat worthy trade blades and probably of earlier vintage, but the mounts, though clearly old and scabbards broken, are probably well into 20th century.

As Ibrahiim has well pointed out, the dance versions of swords, like many forms of court and dress swords, can certainly become a formidable weapon which can be used in occasion to some degree.

Salaams Jim, Fortunately we have your guiding light and the facilities at your disposal (I refer of course to your twenty ton Ethno Arms and Armour mobile library on route 66 !!) Your broad viewpoint is always appreciated and your in depth knowledge of all these systems is the backbone of this forum.

Your last point if I may ~ It now transpires that the early visitors probably got mixed up rather than mistaken about these weapons. Some commented as I have done that these dancing swords (which they thought were war swords) were indeed fighting weapons... that could take off an arm or leg... The fact that they were viewed in combat mode ie probably in mock battle form as one of the Funoon pageants where 2 opponents fight it out...using dancing sword and Terrs shield~the winner is the fighter that can touch the opponents other thumb with his sword tip ! ( dodgey business if you ask me as the swords are sharp)... see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10455 for a description of Funoon which to western way of thinking is essentially pantomime or the passing down of enacted material through play-lets , dance music and poetry... instead of in written form. (It is in fact what makes the proof of the old sword sacrosanct.) But I speak not of the old sword... Tis the young one I cry halt !! An imposter by any other name yet in this case not quite...It honours the ancestors and the old Sayf Yamani....That is why it is razor sharp... Its the least the modern dance exponent can do... after all dancing isn't exactly dangerous... though with a razor sharp blade it certainly is !! As all exponents of martial arts know... You don't play fight with live blades. You do here! A dancing blade must be sharp... Omanis would rather swim with the sharks than turn out with a blunt dancing sword... never! The fact that the shield also passed over to the dancing sword further confused the visitors..I mean why have a shield if you aren't going to fight... Purely honorary purely traditional; not for fighting.

Whilst all this was going on what was the system that did away with bladed weapons... Gunpowder. Not only did we see the demise (though oft iconised) of swords but the main weapon The Spear all but vanished .. Quite simply it wasn't something easily made an Icon from... being very cumbersome... whereas swords and daggers ... no problem.

I placed an old Omani Battle Sword into the Tareq Rajeb in Quwait with a scabbard which had brass furniture. I believe most scabbards got re made... not difficult. What I think was difficult was the manufacture of the blade..which on inspection appear to be watered steel. I point toward either Hadramaut or Nizwa. Common sense would dictate that Nizwa is the answer though I hesitate without proof as yet.

Some Omani Swords below with a few interlopers thrown in ...Forumites please see if you can spot which is which ?

Yours is an interesting take on the influence of African styles on the "dancer" which I suspect came in with the Bussaidi dynasty from about 1744~ and diffused onto the slaver sword (or perhaps logically vica versa?) I simply don't have the evidence to support that yet but it is plausible.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[SwedeGreen]

Khanjar 1: Thank you for making the connection for me of Ibrahiim al Balooshi and Fort Antiques. Haha. That clears a few things up.

Richard G: Yes the hilts are welded but the welds appear to be forge welds which could have been hammered out during any era. Just a guess but could the purpose of the hilt "windows" be to easily see if the sayf is seated in the sheath?

Ibrahiim al Balooshi & Jim: Your knowledge of these is wonderful to read. Thank you. From what I am gathering do you think that I would be correct in describing these swords thus?

Saudi / Yemeni Sayfs
Made between 751 & 1744
Sheaths: Probably early 20th century


Ibrahiim al Balooshi I have sent you an inquiry on your Fort Antiques website not knowing it was you.

Respectfully
Johnny

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by SwedeGreen

Khanjar 1: Thank you for making the connection for me of Ibrahiim al Balooshi and Fort Antiques. Haha. That clears a few things up.

Richard G: Yes the hilts are welded but the welds appear to be forge welds which could have been hammered out during any era. Just a guess but could the purpose of the hilt "windows" be to easily see if the sayf is seated in the sheath?

Ibrahiim al Balooshi & Jim: Your knowledge of these is wonderful to read. Thank you. From what I am gathering do you think that I would be correct in describing these swords thus?

Saudi / Yemeni Sayfs
Made between 751 & 1744
Sheaths: Probably early 20th century


Ibrahiim al Balooshi I have sent you an inquiry on your Fort Antiques website not knowing it was you.

Respectfully
Johnny

Salaams SwedeGreen No. The 4 Saudia Yemeni swords are newish ~ perhaps about 50 years old but nothing to do with Omani swords or the Omani sword dates of 751 or 1744. The scabbards are worn but probably about the same vintage(50 years?),... Solar and sand degradation on leather is very punishing.
(I replied to your inquiry the other day.)
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

[SwedeGreen]

Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Thank you again. Got it, 20th Century Saudi / Yemeni Sayfs

Johnny

[kahnjar1]

Recently there were published here, some pics of the so called Omani Battle Sword which had recently had modern made covering added to the bare hilt, and scabbards made.
My question relates to the Yemeni/Saudi swords which feature in this thread. Did they ever have a covering over the metal handle, and if so, what did it look like?
Stu

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Recently there were published here, some pics of the so called Omani Battle Sword which had recently had modern made covering added to the bare hilt, and scabbards made.
My question relates to the Yemeni/Saudi swords which feature in this thread. Did they ever have a covering over the metal handle, and if so, what did it look like?
Stu

Salaams kahnjar1. This is an excellent question.

In respect of the pictures at #1, which you describe as Yemeni / Saudi swords I suspected that these were like the backyard knocking shop redone hilts on European blades at a recent thread http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=16605 and having replaced Rhino holts later used on Jambia... the resulting swords then spuriously offered through other souks and marketed generally as ethnographic items etc etc i.e. tourist swords. ( I now suggest that this was incorrect and a re-appraisal is required insofar as these long Saudia Yemen hilts)

Conversely I have never seen a leather covered hilt on these long metal hilts AND THUS THE REAPPRAISAL OFFERED BY A CLOSER SCRUTINY OF # 1. What makes it so suspicious is the quantity at which they are appearing... Mutrah has scores of them. It is for this reason that I suspected that they were in plentiful supply having perhaps been done relatively recently and in the same time frame and reasoning as the others. In other words they appeared direct from the Yemeni / Saudia workshops direct onto the local and neighboring countries markets as metal hilts with virtually no provenance. ( THIS IS NOW REFUTED BACKED UP BY THE SCABBARD SHOTS AT 1)

Having carefully looked at #1 pictures with scabbards I begin to reframe on that hypothesis and for that reason urge a re-opening on the debate since The scabbards look like they were deliberately fitted at the same time as the hilts...which look old(Whereas most examples I have seen are without scabbards)...It begs the question "What is the provenance on these long metal hilts" ?

I think we could be looking at a species of Yemeni/Saudia Sword from the 19th C or before with a related hilt to the Omani Battle Sword except that it is stretched to conform with the longer blade for balance.

It can be noted therefor that this is a see-sawing debate as originally that was mooted on the longer thread on Omani Kattara but changed.

This is entirely different from Omani Battle Swords which as you are aware are the only true battlesword in the Omani Armoury. See http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=16482

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.