keris jalak with rare pamor - Page 2

A. G. Maisey · 26th September 2012, 11:55 PM

Thanks for the compliments Donny.

Actually I have a pretty long history in Jawa, beginning back in the 1960's. I have known Empu Pauzan Pusposukadgo since 1974, Empu Suparman Supowijoyo (Alm.) was my teacher from 1982 through until the time of his departure, I have passed knowledge that I have to other pandai keris in Indonesia. I have visited Solo most years since 1970 for a minimum of two months each year. One way and another I've got a lot of background in Indonesia.

I knew Jerzy Piaskowski from about 1988 and provided him with cultural background and material for analysis. I have lost contact with him now, and I am afraid that he has probably left us. If he is still with us he would be close to 100 years old. The paper that David mentions is only one of his analyses on keris technology, his most comprehensive was never completed but was published in part by the Japan Metals Institute.I don't think any of Jerzy's work is online anywhere, and probably the only way to get it is to go through a library network.

I myself have written on keris, but only very short papers that deal with the particular aspects that interest me. My interest is cultural and societal, rather than technological, but I do also have a good understanding of the technology. As for a book, it will never happen. Books cost money to write and produce. I have better things to do with my time and my money than write books.

As for selection of materials. There are a number of ways that a skilled smith can use to select material suitable for a tool or weapon. In very early Javanese iron technology it is probable that the indigenous smiths were using tools imported from mostly China to provide the material for weapons, in other words, they knew what they had before they started. However, there was some smelting of iron from beach sands carried out at least in Jawa, and possibly in other places. The material from these beach sands was not of particularly good quality, and it was mixed with the imported material in order to extend the quantity of the imported material This of course resulted in early pamor. A few years ago Dietrich Drescher did some very good work on the technology of indigenous iron smelting, I think there is a paper on his work and results in German.

One test for suitability of an iron for tool and weapon use is to bring it to high cherry, let it cool in air, place it in a vice and hit it with a hammer. If it is high phosphorus or contains some other impurities in excessive quantity it will snap. Apart from that, you can always tell if material is any good as soon as you start to work it. There is a lot of old iron around, material from 100 years ago and more, that is what we call "hot short". A lot of old cart rims are like this. If you try to forge it it breaks up like cottage cheese under the hammer, so you "wash" it (wasuh). You do this by forging out, folding back and welding it a number of times until the billet does not give off sparks at weld heat when it is hit. By that time the volume of material has reduced and the billet is quite dense with no pores or very small pores in the grain. When its like this you can go ahead an use it. In my experience you need to do this fold and weld process around 6 to 10 times before you get the material clean enough to use. Its a similar thing if you work meteoritic material, you need to wash it by folding and welding before its clean enough to use.

In fact, the quality of material used in a keris blade did not need to be particularly high, because a keris is primarily a thrusting weapon, it needs a sharp point, not a cutting edge that will stay sharp. An arit needs higher quality steel than a keris does, because it is a work tool that needs to stay sharp for several hours work without going back to the stone.

The traditional knife used to cut rice was the ani-ani. This is a tiny steel blade in a wooden mount that fits in the palm of the hand. In use it cannot be seen. The story is that this was used in order not to frighten the spirit of the rice. The fact is that to make a bigger blade of the necessary high quality steel would have been prohibitively expensive. This is called making a virtue of necessity.

I have heard rumours about the keris museum, but it will surprise me if it eventuates. The driving force behind the keris revival in Solo was Panembahan Harjonegoro (Go Tik Swan, Alm.), and he passed away a few years ago. Without somebody to drive this idea I doubt that it will come to fruition, simply because there is so much more that Solo needs to spend money on rather than keris. But I could be wrong, and I hope I am.

satsujinken · 27th September 2012, 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

If you can find the work of Prof. Jerzy Piaskowski of Poland, he did some detailed analysis of old keris blades some time back that details this high and low phosphorous content in iron. The pamor patterns in these old blades did not come from nickel content. Not quite sure where you can get a hold of this research currently, but maybe others can help.

Thanks, David

I found the title of the book "Technology of Early Indonesian Keris : The Results of Metallographic Examinations of Ganja's (upper Part of the Keris) Separately Forged" ... written by him and Alan :grin ...

unfortunately I cannot find the book anywhere ...

satsujinken · 27th September 2012, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Thanks for the compliments Donny.

Actually I have a pretty long history in Jawa, beginning back in the 1960's. I have known Empu Pauzan Pusposukadgo since 1974, Empu Suparman Supowijoyo (Alm.) was my teacher from 1982 through until the time of his departure, I have passed knowledge that I have to other pandai keris in Indonesia. I have visited Solo most years since 1970 for a minimum of two months each year. One way and another I've got a lot of background in Indonesia.

I knew Jerzy Piaskowski from about 1988 and provided him with cultural background and material for analysis. I have lost contact with him now, and I am afraid that he has probably left us. If he is still with us he would be close to 100 years old. The paper that David mentions is only one of his analyses on keris technology, his most comprehensive was never completed but was published in part by the Japan Metals Institute.I don't think any of Jerzy's work is online anywhere, and probably the only way to get it is to go through a library network.

I myself have written on keris, but only very short papers that deal with the particular aspects that interest me. My interest is cultural and societal, rather than technological, but I do also have a good understanding of the technology. As for a book, it will never happen. Books cost money to write and produce. I have better things to do with my time and my money than write books.

As for selection of materials. There are a number of ways that a skilled smith can use to select material suitable for a tool or weapon. In very early Javanese iron technology it is probable that the indigenous smiths were using tools imported from mostly China to provide the material for weapons, in other words, they knew what they had before they started. However, there was some smelting of iron from beach sands carried out at least in Jawa, and possibly in other places. The material from these beach sands was not of particularly good quality, and it was mixed with the imported material in order to extend the quantity of the imported material This of course resulted in early pamor. A few years ago Dietrich Drescher did some very good work on the technology of indigenous iron smelting, I think there is a paper on his work and results in German.

One test for suitability of an iron for tool and weapon use is to bring it to high cherry, let it cool in air, place it in a vice and hit it with a hammer. If it is high phosphorus or contains some other impurities in excessive quantity it will snap. Apart from that, you can always tell if material is any good as soon as you start to work it. There is a lot of old iron around, material from 100 years ago and more, that is what we call "hot short". A lot of old cart rims are like this. If you try to forge it it breaks up like cottage cheese under the hammer, so you "wash" it (wasuh). You do this by forging out, folding back and welding it a number of times until the billet does not give off sparks at weld heat when it is hit. By that time the volume of material has reduced and the billet is quite dense with no pores or very small pores in the grain. When its like this you can go ahead an use it. In my experience you need to do this fold and weld process around 6 to 10 times before you get the material clean enough to use. Its a similar thing if you work meteoritic material, you need to wash it by folding and welding before its clean enough to use.

In fact, the quality of material used in a keris blade did not need to be particularly high, because a keris is primarily a thrusting weapon, it needs a sharp point, not a cutting edge that will stay sharp. An arit needs higher quality steel than a keris does, because it is a work tool that needs to stay sharp for several hours work without going back to the stone.

The traditional knife used to cut rice was the ani-ani. This is a tiny steel blade in a wooden mount that fits in the palm of the hand. In use it cannot be seen. The story is that this was used in order not to frighten the spirit of the rice. The fact is that to make a bigger blade of the necessary high quality steel would have been prohibitively expensive. This is called making a virtue of necessity.

I have heard rumours about the keris museum, but it will surprise me if it eventuates. The driving force behind the keris revival in Solo was Panembahan Harjonegoro (Go Tik Swan, Alm.), and he passed away a few years ago. Without somebody to drive this idea I doubt that it will come to fruition, simply because there is so much more that Solo needs to spend money on rather than keris. But I could be wrong, and I hope I am.

many thanks for the awesome answer ...

I got several points from your answer, that the method is very similar with making japanese sword, with folding and forging to remove impurities.

and talking to you is a whole new story to me, as most of the keris enthusiasts here only knew very little about how a blade was made. They only knew pamor, dhapur, and esoterica regarding keris.

very few know how to make one, simply said, removing slag by seeing whether there's spark whilst hammering is something only empus / tosho / bladesmith knew

now on the topic of making keris, how do empus prevent decarburization of the blade ??

on several blade, say Brajaguna / Brojoguno keris , which said to be specifically designed to pierce armor, had super hard tip and here in Indonesia, we have stupid way to test its strength - it is usually tested using coins (see pic below). If you see the coin pierced, it was an 1973 IDR 100 coin ... and it was made from cupronickel alloy, 1,73 mm thick ... so the keris's tip is indeed very hard

as the metal are heated and folded repeatedly, some carbon unavoidably loss into the air, causing the carbon content within the metal itself decreasing. The end result is a not-so-hard blade, and will not able to hold edge - or in this case hard tip on keris blade

on other case, it is interesting that the person behind keris revival is indeed chinese descendant !! this is new to me ... I heard Panembahan Harjonegoro before, but never thought he was Chinese descendant

lastly, about museum in Solo ...
Solo's major recently elected as Jakarta's Governor ... so we can expect some change ... I hope the museum is not just an idea written on the paper ... as they already planned the location - behind Sriwedari Stadium ...

If it is indeed built, I hope to see you there

A. G. Maisey · 28th September 2012, 11:28 PM

Donny, the core of the blade is put in place after the pamor has been made:- look at a keris blade, its a laminated blade, the pamor on the outside of a steel core. All the folding and welding is intended to remove carbon and any other impurities from the material, but the steel core is only welded once, when it is placed between the layers of pamor. The Brojoguno trick is no trick at all, really. If you make the point substantial, with a decent cross section, and it is properly hardened, any pointed tool will do the coin piercing trick. What makes it impressive is that most old keris in Jawa have lost their original form, they have been so eaten by time excessive cleaning that all the hardness and most of the substance has gone from the blade. If you see a 16th or 17th century keris that is still in original condition you will see a very strong, robust powerful blade that would easily pierce light metal.

If you give a smith decent material, and he has even a little bit of understanding of heat treatment, it is no trick at all for him to produce a pointed blade that will pierce light metal. In pre-industrial societies smiths were looked upon as magicians. In Jawa they were associated with the concept of death and rebirth, they could handle fire and iron and commune with the unseen forces. Even today a lot of technologically challenged people in Jawa regard smiths as people who can work some sort of magic. In fact, there is no magic involved in any of this, its plain common sense + a little bit knowledge + a lot of skill.

Yes, Panembahan Harjonegoro was the prime shaker and mover in the keris revival, he was actually the man behind a lot of other, possibly better known men. His family came from near Boyolali, they were wealthy, powerful people, he went to school with Pakubuwana XII and they were lifelong friends. He was very well connected in upper level Indonesian society, Bung Karno was his personal friend and actually designed part of his house in Jln. Kratonan in Solo. He himself was very wealthy, and his factory produced probably the highest quality batik in Indonesia. The Karaton Surakarta benefited greatly from his benevolence.

Joko was an absolutely great leader of Solo. I doubt if anybody would ever say a bad word of him. How many Lord Mayors drive crappy old cars that wouldn't be out of place on a scrap heap? I personally am sorry to see him go from Solo, but Jakarta is a problem, and if anybody can help fix that problem just a little bit it is Joko Widodo (Jokowi). So yes, Solo leadership has changed, but I would have greater confidence in seeing a keris museum at Sriwedari if the undertaking had been given by Joko.

However, having said that, I'd also like to put on record that I personally do not support the idea of keris museums and in fact any public exhibition of keris. Those who engage in this folly are acting contrary to the spirit that should be enshrined in this Javanese icon. Once you put a keris on public exhibition what you have achieved is to empty it. It is no longer a keris, just a piece of metal.

satsujinken · 1st October 2012, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

What makes it impressive is that most old keris in Jawa have lost their original form, they have been so eaten by time excessive cleaning that all the hardness and most of the substance has gone from the blade. If you see a 16th or 17th century keris that is still in original condition you will see a very strong, robust powerful blade that would easily pierce light metal.

yeah ... you got me on this ... I forgot to remind myself that most of the old blade I've handled is already lost their original "meat" due to centuries of cleaning ...

I have a keris bali that seems so robust and strong, and I believe will have no problem in piercing coins ... but it will be a stupid idea to do that

but not yet answering my question ... about how to prevent decarburization during folding & forging process

but once more, if this is a trade secret, feel free not to answer ... really appreciate that

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

However, having said that, I'd also like to put on record that I personally do not support the idea of keris museums and in fact any public exhibition of keris. Those who engage in this folly are acting contrary to the spirit that should be enshrined in this Javanese icon. Once you put a keris on public exhibition what you have achieved is to empty it. It is no longer a keris, just a piece of metal.

I really revere your knowledge and understanding of javanese keris as whole (not just as weapon). Comments above will only be written by someone really deeply immersed in the world of tosan aji

I am agree with you - it is true that once displayed in museum it becomes nothing else but a display piece - nothing more ...

but since most of Indonesian did not care about this precious heritage, and some starting to think that keris is associated with evil, and must be destroyed along with growth of radicalism in Indonesia - not to mention that experts like you are getting rarer and rarer ...

If it is needed to save the keris for now, I will settle for the museum

and I do hope that people like you, who had thorough understanding may share something so it will not be lost

and Jokowi already given his approval on the plan ... so I really hope to see you there someday

in almost the same spirit, I will never also displayed my keris, my own pusaka to anyone as I consider it personal and have deeper meaning rather than mere weapon. What I shared so far is just "rencekan" compared to the very few I owned and I am afraid I will never share it except to my descendant someday

26th September 2012, 11:55 PM	#31
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	Thanks for the compliments Donny. Actually I have a pretty long history in Jawa, beginning back in the 1960's. I have known Empu Pauzan Pusposukadgo since 1974, Empu Suparman Supowijoyo (Alm.) was my teacher from 1982 through until the time of his departure, I have passed knowledge that I have to other pandai keris in Indonesia. I have visited Solo most years since 1970 for a minimum of two months each year. One way and another I've got a lot of background in Indonesia. I knew Jerzy Piaskowski from about 1988 and provided him with cultural background and material for analysis. I have lost contact with him now, and I am afraid that he has probably left us. If he is still with us he would be close to 100 years old. The paper that David mentions is only one of his analyses on keris technology, his most comprehensive was never completed but was published in part by the Japan Metals Institute.I don't think any of Jerzy's work is online anywhere, and probably the only way to get it is to go through a library network. I myself have written on keris, but only very short papers that deal with the particular aspects that interest me. My interest is cultural and societal, rather than technological, but I do also have a good understanding of the technology. As for a book, it will never happen. Books cost money to write and produce. I have better things to do with my time and my money than write books. As for selection of materials. There are a number of ways that a skilled smith can use to select material suitable for a tool or weapon. In very early Javanese iron technology it is probable that the indigenous smiths were using tools imported from mostly China to provide the material for weapons, in other words, they knew what they had before they started. However, there was some smelting of iron from beach sands carried out at least in Jawa, and possibly in other places. The material from these beach sands was not of particularly good quality, and it was mixed with the imported material in order to extend the quantity of the imported material This of course resulted in early pamor. A few years ago Dietrich Drescher did some very good work on the technology of indigenous iron smelting, I think there is a paper on his work and results in German. One test for suitability of an iron for tool and weapon use is to bring it to high cherry, let it cool in air, place it in a vice and hit it with a hammer. If it is high phosphorus or contains some other impurities in excessive quantity it will snap. Apart from that, you can always tell if material is any good as soon as you start to work it. There is a lot of old iron around, material from 100 years ago and more, that is what we call "hot short". A lot of old cart rims are like this. If you try to forge it it breaks up like cottage cheese under the hammer, so you "wash" it (wasuh). You do this by forging out, folding back and welding it a number of times until the billet does not give off sparks at weld heat when it is hit. By that time the volume of material has reduced and the billet is quite dense with no pores or very small pores in the grain. When its like this you can go ahead an use it. In my experience you need to do this fold and weld process around 6 to 10 times before you get the material clean enough to use. Its a similar thing if you work meteoritic material, you need to wash it by folding and welding before its clean enough to use. In fact, the quality of material used in a keris blade did not need to be particularly high, because a keris is primarily a thrusting weapon, it needs a sharp point, not a cutting edge that will stay sharp. An arit needs higher quality steel than a keris does, because it is a work tool that needs to stay sharp for several hours work without going back to the stone. The traditional knife used to cut rice was the ani-ani. This is a tiny steel blade in a wooden mount that fits in the palm of the hand. In use it cannot be seen. The story is that this was used in order not to frighten the spirit of the rice. The fact is that to make a bigger blade of the necessary high quality steel would have been prohibitively expensive. This is called making a virtue of necessity. I have heard rumours about the keris museum, but it will surprise me if it eventuates. The driving force behind the keris revival in Solo was Panembahan Harjonegoro (Go Tik Swan, Alm.), and he passed away a few years ago. Without somebody to drive this idea I doubt that it will come to fruition, simply because there is so much more that Solo needs to spend money on rather than keris. But I could be wrong, and I hope I am.

28th September 2012, 11:28 PM	#34
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	Donny, the core of the blade is put in place after the pamor has been made:- look at a keris blade, its a laminated blade, the pamor on the outside of a steel core. All the folding and welding is intended to remove carbon and any other impurities from the material, but the steel core is only welded once, when it is placed between the layers of pamor. The Brojoguno trick is no trick at all, really. If you make the point substantial, with a decent cross section, and it is properly hardened, any pointed tool will do the coin piercing trick. What makes it impressive is that most old keris in Jawa have lost their original form, they have been so eaten by time excessive cleaning that all the hardness and most of the substance has gone from the blade. If you see a 16th or 17th century keris that is still in original condition you will see a very strong, robust powerful blade that would easily pierce light metal. If you give a smith decent material, and he has even a little bit of understanding of heat treatment, it is no trick at all for him to produce a pointed blade that will pierce light metal. In pre-industrial societies smiths were looked upon as magicians. In Jawa they were associated with the concept of death and rebirth, they could handle fire and iron and commune with the unseen forces. Even today a lot of technologically challenged people in Jawa regard smiths as people who can work some sort of magic. In fact, there is no magic involved in any of this, its plain common sense + a little bit knowledge + a lot of skill. Yes, Panembahan Harjonegoro was the prime shaker and mover in the keris revival, he was actually the man behind a lot of other, possibly better known men. His family came from near Boyolali, they were wealthy, powerful people, he went to school with Pakubuwana XII and they were lifelong friends. He was very well connected in upper level Indonesian society, Bung Karno was his personal friend and actually designed part of his house in Jln. Kratonan in Solo. He himself was very wealthy, and his factory produced probably the highest quality batik in Indonesia. The Karaton Surakarta benefited greatly from his benevolence. Joko was an absolutely great leader of Solo. I doubt if anybody would ever say a bad word of him. How many Lord Mayors drive crappy old cars that wouldn't be out of place on a scrap heap? I personally am sorry to see him go from Solo, but Jakarta is a problem, and if anybody can help fix that problem just a little bit it is Joko Widodo (Jokowi). So yes, Solo leadership has changed, but I would have greater confidence in seeing a keris museum at Sriwedari if the undertaking had been given by Joko. However, having said that, I'd also like to put on record that I personally do not support the idea of keris museums and in fact any public exhibition of keris. Those who engage in this folly are acting contrary to the spirit that should be enshrined in this Javanese icon. Once you put a keris on public exhibition what you have achieved is to empty it. It is no longer a keris, just a piece of metal.