Too Tiny?

[David]

Originally Posted by T. Koch

My vote still goes for bone, although I guess, it theoretically could be from the outer layers of the clamshell, where the material is more mottled and of lesser quality. In my experience though, craftsmen usually take from nearer the center, where the shell is harder and more compact.

Thor, did you look at the examples of Tridacna hilts that i linked to above. While the purity of the material might be of more importance in, say, the Japanese culture, it should certainly be clear from the examples in the thread that i posted that it is not that much of an issue in the Malay world.

[T. Koch]

*David* Thank you for drawing my attention to your link - again. I had indeed missed it the first time around. I see now, that the mottled parts of the shell are indeed being used - at least when we're talking keris hilts. I just find this peculiar. I have myself manually destroyed dozens of Tridacna-shells and even fairly small half-shells, say the size of your average popcorn bowl have maybe 6-7 cm thick shells. Especially the area near the umbo (hinge) of the clam, is comprised of plenty of dense, white material.

Atm. I tend to agree with Wouter: I'm still indecisive, but after seing the phtographs Rick linked to, I'm leaning more towards clam than bone. It's not however TOK-TOK. Bone against glass goes PLOK-PLOK, while clamshell against glass goes KLINK-KLINK. The problem with onomatopoeia is the same as with the hot/cold-distinction: They're both very subjective..

I still say torch it - it's the only way to know for sure! If dissassembly is not an option, I guess comparing it with the sound of a stone against glass, is the next-best thing: They should sound about the same: both harder than bone.

- Very cool discussion. I'm very grateful to have learned this and seen the above photos. Thanks everybody!


All the best, - Thor

[A.alnakkas]

Hey Thor,

The best way to describe the voice I heard is that its similar to tapping 2 pieces of glass. There is a ring to it like a bell.

[kai]

Hello Thor,

I have myself manually destroyed dozens of Tridacna-shells

Aren't these auctioned off for the good cause?

even fairly small half-shells, say the size of your average popcorn bowl have maybe 6-7 cm thick shells. Especially the area near the umbo (hinge) of the clam, is comprised of plenty of dense, white material.

I have wondered about this, too. While the large specimens may have been quite difficult to obtain, this may be more a matter of priorities for utilizing/trading the best pieces.

I still say torch it - it's the only way to know for sure!

Is the smell really that different? (dense bone, tooth, and clam all retaining some amount of organic material)

If you have a good magnifying glass, you should be able to tell from the microstructure, especially with polished surfaces: clam does exhibit tiny, undulated growing rings which seem to be quite distinctive in the few examples I've closely examined.

If dissassembly is not an option, I guess comparing it with the sound of a stone against glass, is the next-best thing: They should sound about the same: both harder than bone.

With either sound or touch, I agree that it would be good to utilize suitable pieces for comparision: polished marble vs. bone and ivory. Having said that, the difference in weight is pretty obvious if you're used to objects of similar size.

Regards,
Kai

[Ferguson]

These really small gunong are not uncommon. I have a couple. Here's my smallest. Yours looks nice.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=small+gunong

Steve

[T. Koch]

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Thor,


Aren't these auctioned off for the good cause?

Yes, that is indeed the approach of the CITES Management Authority (M.A.) of many countries. The legislation as such allows for the M.A. to auction off confiscated effects from species listed on CITES Appendix II/EU Annex B or lower. Personally, I think this is a great approach and I would love the possibility of making my own department at least partly self-sustaining like that.

However, from the Ministry administration (under which the Danish M.A. belongs) there is a wish as to "not to send confusing signals to the population". You see, here in Europe our governments do all the thinking for us, and of course the common citizen simply wouldn't be able to grasp the good intentions behind such an auction or the benefits it could potentially bring... (and I use this smiley very sparingly)

So no, unfortunately no auctions here. Confiscated effects that are in some way unique, educational or may serve as a taxonomical reference are stored for the purpose of lending out to schools, museums or as a later reference for ourselves and then we whack the crap out of the rest.

The educational part I'm really all for and I'm also happy that we in that regard have around 15 large metal trunks filled with different confiscated effects and each accompanied by an educational pack consisting of books and DVD's. These trunks are continuously lent out to public schools in the country and I think this is very valuable from a conservationist point of view. -You've gotta catch 'em while they're young!


All the best, - Thor


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Dear mods, I'm sorry for going so very much off topic here and I realize that I could have written kai a pm instead. However, I thought it might be of interest to others too, to hear how we do in at least one country. If you mods feel like it, you are more than welcome to delete this post. No hard feelings from here at all!