New Gunong

Atlantia · 13th August 2012, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Coleman

Well, the wife has been at it again. She found this on epray and worked out a deal with its owner and now it has been added to my collection. It arrived today so I thought that I would show a few pictures of it for any comments on age or anything else (like if this is a tourist piece or not) that you would like to add.
The hilt I believe is ivory with what I believe to be swasa fittings while the guard is a combination of an engraved gold plated copper plate and an engraved silver plated copper plate. The scabbard is covered in decorative gold plated copper sheets and bands. Total length of the dagger itself is 12-7/8 inches with a 7-1/4 inch engraved laminated blade. My thanks in advance for any comments or information that anyone would like to offer.

Robert

P.S.
Just to make things a little clearer, the "plating" on the scabbard is more like gilding than actual plating.

Bloody hell Robert!
Totally missed this one, what a beauty! I'm drooling on the keyboard!!

You'll have to keep the mrs a little longer now

If memory serves this isn't the first beautiful present she's found you?

Robert · 14th August 2012, 04:25 AM

Hello Gene, and thank you for your compliments on both the gunong and the wifes taste. Yes, she is definitely a keeper and has shown me she has a great eye for spotting nice items. Last year she found and bought a small collection of very nice Moro items for my birthday. The thing is, she has always referred to my collection as a pile of rusty junk and now she is actively looking for and buying items like this.

It is actually starting to make me a bit nervous

but like they say, never look a gift horse in the mouth. Seeing as she seems to be on the lookout for Moro items maybe I should drop a few hints about that pira that I've always wanted.

David · 14th August 2012, 02:18 PM

Just wondering if my questions are unanswerable, since no one has addressed them. Just to state them again...
How accurately can we date this filigree ball feature that we see on some of these fancier dressed gunongs?
How far back can we date the weapon itself? Can't say i've seen anything that can be dated older than very late 19th century.

kronckew · 14th August 2012, 04:33 PM

i seem to recall reading somewhere that the moro started carrying the gunongs somewhere during the insurrection at the end of the 19c/early 20th when they were forbidden to carry the longer kris and barongs in public. the smaller knives could more easily be hidden yet were still deadly at close quarters.

my humble item, hardened edge is very apparent in vinegar etch.

my touristy one: note the pointy luks, thin sheet metal guard, thinner flat x-section blade vs. diamond x-section in the other, no hardened edge or laminations, grip ball rather than the more form-fitting version of the earlier one that fits nicely between the fingers. decorations are incised in the ball, not wirework.

the top one lives on the night stand by my bed justincase. the touristy one is relegated to the closet.

Atlantia · 14th August 2012, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Coleman

Hello Gene, and thank you for your compliments on both the gunong and the wifes taste. Yes, she is definitely a keeper and has shown me she has a great eye for spotting nice items. Last year she found and bought a small collection of very nice Moro items for my birthday. The thing is, she has always referred to my collection as a pile of rusty junk and now she is actively looking for and buying items like this.

It is actually starting to make me a bit nervous

but like they say, never look a gift horse in the mouth. Seeing as she seems to be on the lookout for Moro items maybe I should drop a few hints about that pira that I've always wanted.

When she's buying presents like that the only worry is that you might do something to make her stop!

Battara · 14th August 2012, 11:20 PM

Here is some good information from Federico's site: look at the gunong section.

http://home.earthlink.net/~federicom...roweapons.html

To answer your question, David, the bulbous ferrule seems to be a little later, around the 1930s? Hard to pin down exact dates.

VANDOO · 14th August 2012, 11:21 PM

YOU ARE RIGHT I USED TO CALL THEM PUNAL. I DIDN'T FIND ANYTHING UNDER PUNAL OR KRIS PICTURES OR TEXT. STONE DID GROUP THE KERIS AND MORO KRIS ALL UNDER KRIS IN HIS BOOK BUT NO GUNONGS PICTURED. I AM SURPRIZED.

migueldiaz · 14th August 2012, 11:43 PM

another anecdotal evidence, on how the gunongs looked like in the 1920s and earlier (taken from antiques magazine, march 1926) ...

Battara · 15th August 2012, 03:38 AM

Thanks Lorenz. I also have a copy of this magazine and the picture supports Federico's analysis.

The bulbous midsection of the hilt and the bulbous pistol grip is a later, 1930s development.

Now the question is were they earlier than 1900? I am sure that some form was present but early gunongs were placed out of site as an emergency piece or often worn in the back as a back up weapon. Much later did they get large, showy, and worn more prominantly.

migueldiaz · 15th August 2012, 06:31 AM

thanks too, jose. i'm intrigued too on how the bulbous feature came about ...

14th August 2012, 04:33 PM	#4
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,224	i seem to recall reading somewhere that the moro started carrying the gunongs somewhere during the insurrection at the end of the 19c/early 20th when they were forbidden to carry the longer kris and barongs in public. the smaller knives could more easily be hidden yet were still deadly at close quarters. my humble item, hardened edge is very apparent in vinegar etch. my touristy one: note the pointy luks, thin sheet metal guard, thinner flat x-section blade vs. diamond x-section in the other, no hardened edge or laminations, grip ball rather than the more form-fitting version of the earlier one that fits nicely between the fingers. decorations are incised in the ball, not wirework. the top one lives on the night stand by my bed justincase. the touristy one is relegated to the closet. Last edited by kronckew; 14th August 2012 at 04:58 PM.

14th August 2012, 11:43 PM	#8
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	another anecdotal evidence, on how the gunongs looked like in the 1920s and earlier (taken from antiques magazine, march 1926) ... Attached Images

14th August 2012, 04:25 AM	#2
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hello Gene, and thank you for your compliments on both the gunong and the wifes taste. Yes, she is definitely a keeper and has shown me she has a great eye for spotting nice items. Last year she found and bought a small collection of very nice Moro items for my birthday. The thing is, she has always referred to my collection as a pile of rusty junk and now she is actively looking for and buying items like this. It is actually starting to make me a bit nervous but like they say, never look a gift horse in the mouth. Seeing as she seems to be on the lookout for Moro items maybe I should drop a few hints about that pira that I've always wanted.

14th August 2012, 02:18 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	Just wondering if my questions are unanswerable, since no one has addressed them. Just to state them again... How accurately can we date this filigree ball feature that we see on some of these fancier dressed gunongs? How far back can we date the weapon itself? Can't say i've seen anything that can be dated older than very late 19th century.

14th August 2012, 11:20 PM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	Here is some good information from Federico's site: look at the gunong section. http://home.earthlink.net/~federicom...roweapons.html To answer your question, David, the bulbous ferrule seems to be a little later, around the 1930s? Hard to pin down exact dates.

14th August 2012, 11:21 PM	#7
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	YOU ARE RIGHT I USED TO CALL THEM PUNAL. I DIDN'T FIND ANYTHING UNDER PUNAL OR KRIS PICTURES OR TEXT. STONE DID GROUP THE KERIS AND MORO KRIS ALL UNDER KRIS IN HIS BOOK BUT NO GUNONGS PICTURED. I AM SURPRIZED.

15th August 2012, 03:38 AM	#9
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	Thanks Lorenz. I also have a copy of this magazine and the picture supports Federico's analysis. The bulbous midsection of the hilt and the bulbous pistol grip is a later, 1930s development. Now the question is were they earlier than 1900? I am sure that some form was present but early gunongs were placed out of site as an emergency piece or often worn in the back as a back up weapon. Much later did they get large, showy, and worn more prominantly.

15th August 2012, 06:31 AM	#10
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	thanks too, jose. i'm intrigued too on how the bulbous feature came about ...