A gamble, your opinion?

A. G. Maisey · 2nd August 2012, 04:35 AM

Yes Rasjid, I'm quite sure that the amount of leeway given to individual artists working according to kraton instructions would be pretty minimal. There might be a bit of tolerance to accommodate individual style and competence, but the kraton would definitely lay down what they wanted.

If a particular form should appear on the gandhik and gonjo, and the kraton was not happy with what was produced, you can bet it would have been sent back to do again and again, until they were happy.

Jean · 2nd August 2012, 09:27 AM

Hello Alan,
Thank you for the detailed information. Have you got some pictures of representative specimens of the various and traditional types of kinatah to share with us? It would be great!
Regards

A. G. Maisey · 2nd August 2012, 09:32 AM

Jean, I think you know my principles in respect of publishing photos of my personal keris:- I simply do not do it. I consider this practice to be disrespectful and in bad taste. This is a personal standard and is not intended as criticism of what others may do.

I am happy to publish photographs of keris I intend to sell, but I do not intend to sell any of my old kinatah keris at the present time.

Sorry.

dbhmgb · 2nd August 2012, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Jean, I think you know my principles in respect of publishing photos of my personal keris:- I simply do not do it. I consider this practice to be disrespectful and in bad taste.

Alan,

When I read this line my first though was "Fascinating"! From my recent readings I can understand your position. I'll take this opportunity to thank you for pointing me in the right direction as far as my education.

Dan

A. G. Maisey · 2nd August 2012, 12:05 PM

Dan, I don't claim my position on this to be the "right" position, but it is my position, and one that I learnt from those who have taught me.

These Javanese people who taught me much of what I know would no more think of displaying a personal keris to the entire world than they would think of sprouting wings and flying. You put something on the net and it is there for the entire world to see.

A personal keris is something very close to one's own personality,one's own inner self, in Javanese culture and society it symbolises its owner. There is no secret about this. Its not select knowledge, everybody knows it, even most western collectors. Given that this is so, how can it be proper to display one's personal keris for unknown people to gaze upon?

But my background and education in keris is a little bit different to that of most people. Most collectors, even present day Javanese collectors consider the keris that they keep as objects, perhaps art objects, perhaps esoteric objects, perhaps objects that represent wealth or prestige, but very rarely as extensions of themselves. Thus, for people who look at keris in this way there is clearly nothing wrong with showing everybody what they have.

Its just a bit of a difference in attitude:- if people wish to display their keris for all the world to see, by all means, go ahead and do so. But don't ask me to follow.

2nd August 2012, 04:35 AM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,989	Yes Rasjid, I'm quite sure that the amount of leeway given to individual artists working according to kraton instructions would be pretty minimal. There might be a bit of tolerance to accommodate individual style and competence, but the kraton would definitely lay down what they wanted. If a particular form should appear on the gandhik and gonjo, and the kraton was not happy with what was produced, you can bet it would have been sent back to do again and again, until they were happy.

2nd August 2012, 09:27 AM	#2
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Hello Alan, Thank you for the detailed information. Have you got some pictures of representative specimens of the various and traditional types of kinatah to share with us? It would be great! Regards

2nd August 2012, 09:32 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,989	Jean, I think you know my principles in respect of publishing photos of my personal keris:- I simply do not do it. I consider this practice to be disrespectful and in bad taste. This is a personal standard and is not intended as criticism of what others may do. I am happy to publish photographs of keris I intend to sell, but I do not intend to sell any of my old kinatah keris at the present time. Sorry.

2nd August 2012, 12:05 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,989	Dan, I don't claim my position on this to be the "right" position, but it is my position, and one that I learnt from those who have taught me. These Javanese people who taught me much of what I know would no more think of displaying a personal keris to the entire world than they would think of sprouting wings and flying. You put something on the net and it is there for the entire world to see. A personal keris is something very close to one's own personality,one's own inner self, in Javanese culture and society it symbolises its owner. There is no secret about this. Its not select knowledge, everybody knows it, even most western collectors. Given that this is so, how can it be proper to display one's personal keris for unknown people to gaze upon? But my background and education in keris is a little bit different to that of most people. Most collectors, even present day Javanese collectors consider the keris that they keep as objects, perhaps art objects, perhaps esoteric objects, perhaps objects that represent wealth or prestige, but very rarely as extensions of themselves. Thus, for people who look at keris in this way there is clearly nothing wrong with showing everybody what they have. Its just a bit of a difference in attitude:- if people wish to display their keris for all the world to see, by all means, go ahead and do so. But don't ask me to follow.