An immense Khyber sword

[Stasa Katz]

Gentlemen, thank you for giving your time here.

All in all, I feel satisfied. I was well aware that the scabbard was not original; am glad that I have a way to keep this big blade safe while learning to make good quality reproduction scabbards.

And the information you provided was valuable. This bigger blade lacks one feature that shows up on most other afghan blades, whether Khyber swords or chooras--a sort of lozenge that sits atop the spine of the blade just where the blade joins the handle.

The take home lesson is, never purchase unless

1) All photos of the item are high resolution and show the top -- the spine of the blade. A well forged choora/pesh kabz or salawar yatagan will show that the smith has given plenty of skilled attention to the that spine area of the blade. (Am not sure of terminology)

My hunch is that the handle may have been broken, leaving a shortened tang, hence a re-done blade with a shortened handle.

Once a tang has been broken, it would probably be hard to repair and restore to full length, unless I am mistaken.

Thank you all again.

Its part of the adventures of collecting.

[Atlantia]

Hi John,

When I handled it there were clear gaps around the fit of the hilt that appear to have been filled now. Any ideas what has been used?

[spiral]

To illustrate Genes point, Heres photos of it on one dealers website from about 2 months ago, & a photo of it as sold on ebay.....

I wonder John Is the handle still realy loose & floppin about or has the filler made it feel firm?

spiral

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by John Aubrey

Once a tang has been broken, it would probably be hard to repair and restore to full length, unless I am mistaken.

Thank you all again.

Its part of the adventures of collecting.

Hi John,

You've gone away with all the good in this and that is important, onwards and upwards.

With regards to a broken tang, I am sure many smiths with tell you here it is a very easy to fix with a simple lap weld, especially the tang as it can be then dressed up with new grip slabs and a grip strap.

Gav

[Jim McDougall]

Guys thank you so much for continuing this thread with these constructive observations! I really learn a great deal on observing these weapons in greater detail from those of you who handle these 'hands on' regularly. I must admit I often dont even notice some of the features and often flaws in the construction or reworked makeup of the pieces. This has become a most informative thread, nicely done!

All the best,
Jim

[ariel]

Well, based on the latest pics, the seller provided less than 100% complete description of the item.... The handle was the most unusual and appealing feature ( for me, at least), and securing it with epoxy was deceitful. Reworking the tang and putting a new handle is way too much for preserving the authenticity of this Khyber.

[Stasa Katz]

A quick note on the sword we have been discussing. The handle is a bit loose. I am not yet knowledgeable enough to guess what was used for the handle. Elements in handle are a bit loose but not to point of falling apart.

Am a rank amateur so am not going to try and tamper with this myself.

As an illustration of how fluid the entire region is, here is a snap shot of one man's career that matches how these blades can travel.

I am sure my blade is not as old as the First Afghan War. I did think it interesting to offer a description of one Afghan noble who chose to assist the British in a variety of capacities. He and his family and many of their soldiers went into exile and lived on British ruled territory far from their home territory in Afghanistan.

There must have been a great and complex array of blades in their hands. And in India, if they needed to take their weapons for repair to Indian smithies, this would have added yet further to the complexity--and left questions for collectors.

There was an Afghan noble who lived in Paghman, near Kabul, and chose to support Shah Shuja , who was placed on the throne by the British and the Army of the Indus, during the First Afghan War. (1841)

Later, this Afghan noble threw in his lot with the British and followed Sales back to EIO controlled territory and later settled near Meerut.

Lady Sales, in Kabul ('Cabul') mentions him.

I observe I have mentioned the Laird of Pughman (aka Paghman), a sobriquet applied to a good man, and a true one to the Shah and us. His proper name was the Syud Mahommed Khan, and for the good service he did in the Kohistan with Sale's force (Lady Sales husband), he obtained the honorary title of Jan Fishan Khan, or the nobleman who is the exterminator of his sovereign's enemies. It is a difficult sentence to render into English. Jan means life; Fishan, heedless of the life of your enemies, Khan, a lord or a nobleman...(quoted from A Journal of the Disasterss in Afghanistan by Lady Florentia Sales, page 29-30, Tantalion Press)

Jan Fishan Khan gave assistance to Robert Sales' forces. The British granted him lands and an income in an area near Meerut in what is now Northern India. Later he and his troops assisted the British in 1857

Imperial Gazetteer of India

http://books.google.com/books?id=xnd...ed=0CBkQ6AEwAQ

Wikipedia

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...&hl=en&ct=clnk

There must have been a vast variety of blades in the hands of this clan chief and his retainers. Khan's career would have spanned territory held by the Afghans near Kabul, his flight would have taken place through either the Bolan or Khyber Pass, through Sikh held turf, and then south into what is now Northern India...and all these areas with different weapons and forges.

All interesting for collectors. Thank you all again for your time.

[Lew]

John

The thickness of the T shaped spine is very questionable in my opinion this is a mid to late 20th century blade. See pics below notice the quality of the T spine on an older example. Btw if you call up the bidding you will see it was a private listing . Why would you need a private listing when eBay protects the bidders with code names?

[Jim McDougall]

John, as I earlier noted the discussion has proven most interesting despite the tinged adversity concerning this weapon and the circumstances of its sale and your acquisition. I'd like to say that I strongly disagree with your reference to yourself as an 'amateur'. Your attention to detail in further researching this weapon and the history of the regions and events which may be applicable is most admirable and remarkable. To me that is the mark of a much more seasoned collector, and quite honestly an approach I wish more collectors pursued. Thank you for sharing these results here as this kind of text is in my opinion very much as important as the details concerning the physical character and attributes of the item, and well placed in discussion. As for the commercial politics concerned I consider them mostly a trite distraction and better handled privately.
Nicely done John, and thank you!

All the best,
Jim