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8th June 2012, 12:44 AM
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#1 | |
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Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Dortmund, Germany
Posts: 102
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Quote:
the same workshop  Best regards Thilo |
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8th June 2012, 01:27 AM
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#2 | |
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Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Paris (FR*) Cairo (EG)
Posts: 1,142
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Quote:
Emanuel wrote an interesting chapter about flissa http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11477 and give some indications about who was manufacturing flissa; 1 tribe only but better to read the post à + Dom |
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8th June 2012, 05:52 AM
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#3 |
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,242
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Hi there,
The strange handle can be seen on other flyssa/nimcha variants, and on some "Berber" sabres and shula/s'boula daggers as well. http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1362 http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2002 Camille Lacoste Desjardins writes in her article "Sabres Kabyles" that these small flyssa-like daggers date post-1950 or so. Algiers and much of the hinterland was taken by the French in 1830, and in 1850 the French imposed a ban on weapon manufacture. Kabylia surrendered a few years alter in 1857. By then the large flyssa were no longer being made, but part of the industry continued for the smaller types, sought after by the new French colonists. While they were very well made with good blades and quality decoration, quality gradually went down until they essentially became the "wedding nimchas" with blades cut from sheet metal. I'm not sure exactly where this happened. It likely started with the Kabyle flyssa, then might have had a bit of a back and forth with Morocco. The shula/s'boula was probably an intermediary step. This is conjecture though...Dom you may have a better sense of where the different types were available. Emanuel |
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8th June 2012, 05:21 PM
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#4 |
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Belgium
Posts: 171
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Some more Flyssa decorated with cowry shells.
In the books "Jacob, Alain, 1974 - Armes blanches de l'Afrique noire" & "Anthony C. Tirri - Islamic and native weapons of colonial Africa, 1800-1960" are simular Flyssa shown, I don't have these books so I can't show them here, maby someone can add them here? Like you can see in the picture, below the shells the scabbard and handle are already decorated. Greets |
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8th June 2012, 05:33 PM
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#5 |
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Belgium
Posts: 171
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8th June 2012, 08:35 PM
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#7 |
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Belgium
Posts: 171
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This is the one from "Jacob, Alain, 1974 - Armes blanches de l'Afrique noire", provided by Pieje,
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9th June 2012, 05:51 AM
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#9 | |
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,242
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Quote:
I like this curved flyssa variant. It’s interesting to see that the brass handle treatment is still there under the leather and shells. Were this mine I would remove them down to the original underneath since they are a later addition. Is the original carved wooden scabbard still there? If Jacob's Senegalese attribution of the dagger is correct, it might be explained by France's use of Senegalese Tirailleurs in Algeria in the 1940s and 1960s to put down the Algerian rebellions. Senegalese veterans could have taken them as souvenirs. Emanuel |
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9th June 2012, 03:32 PM
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#10 | |
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Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Paris (FR*) Cairo (EG)
Posts: 1,142
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Quote:
 you have a large and fertile imagination  I'm agreed, that every thing, included the incredible, could be possible ... - in 1940s the Senegalese Tirailleurs, present in Bir Hakeim - East Libya, later have participated to the landing in Provence, and they went until Germania, probability to carry with them a "souvenir" on long run (years)  - from 1954 to 62, they were in Algeria, as well as myself (61/62), but again, I never saw during our operations a single "flissa" or "Algerian nimcha", main reason, the population was too poor to hold some edged weapons like that, just kitchen knifes ... otherwise sometimes, some very good automatic guns, what we have collected ... isn't it ... but never keep it more realistic; THE TRADING ... when it's not the smuggling (trabandists, in local language) even in our days, as well as in past, since centuries, a very active and profitable business, between; Algeria, Niger, Mali, and Mauritania (border with Senegal and Mali) guns, revolver's, machine-gun, RPJ, ammunitions, drugs, cigarettes ... etc ... every weeks, in North Sahara (2001/04) I was buying Malb*ro RIM (Republic Islamic of Mauritania) in very large quantity to supply American's camps (gas) in my charge, localized in Sahara during the 6 years spent in Algeria; 1995/98 then 2001/04 I NEVER SAW A SINGLE FLISSA, long or short, even if nevertheless on weekly basic, I went against all security measures, visit the Saharan city of Ouargla (outside of security perimeter) the shops of antiques, I bought; ethnic jewelery, stone artifacts, never saw a dagger or sword ... I have had talks with merchants (I speak Arabic), and asked from them edged weapons ... every time same answer; none ... only thing, a day in Algiers, where I spent few nights, I found an old Tuareg arm dagger ("loï bo"), it's all what I found ... during all those years the cat was skinny ... as we said here in France my conclusion; these "flissa/nimcha" ornamented with crowie shells, are from the end of 19th, transfered (caravan) from Sahara to African countries of Sub-Sahara, then decorated by the merchants to comply with local fashion this trading business, was been done before 1930, then the local situation became more critical in 1930 the "pacification" of Sahara was accomplished, before, only Tuareg was the "masters", then, their movements was restricted, deepest in South (as in our days ... ) less romantic, but may be more realistic, sorry to kill the poet who is residing in you à + Dom |
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11th June 2012, 07:49 AM
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#11 | |
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,242
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Quote:
If there was extensive trade between Kabylia and the Sahel in the 19th century, that would have passed through Touareg caravans until the 1930s as you say. Some examples of flyssa blades chould have been found in Touareg or Hausa fashion no? Anyway, we do see a good number of thse Senegalese cowry shell flyssas so they really must have like them :shurg: Incidentally, have you seen this website: http://www.algerie-ancienne.com/livres/Revue/revue.htm ? It has hundreds of scanned books and publications covering most of the history of the area. I haven't had time to read even 1% of it... Best, Emanuel Last edited by Emanuel; 11th June 2012 at 08:37 AM. |
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10th June 2012, 01:59 AM
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#12 |
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 415
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Flyssa, for comparison
Here is a large (24 inches) curved flyssa with a hilt similar to the one posted by Dom. I had been thinking of this as a nimcha… It, along with the small jimbaya, are shown being worn by a "desert wallah" c. late 19th century.
Separately I will posted some other flyssas. |
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10th June 2012, 02:11 AM
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#13 |
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 415
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More flyssas
Here are three other flyssas in my collection for comparison.
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10th June 2012, 02:17 PM
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#14 | |
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Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Paris (FR*) Cairo (EG)
Posts: 1,142
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Quote:
I look for "Desert wallah", because I never listen about a tribe or a Bedu group with "wallah" as name but in Arabic, it's the contraction of "wallah al-azim" (swearing using God name) in this case "Desert wallah" could (?) mean "I swear, Desert" second thing who interrogated me ... your picture for the "Desert wallah" - the man is dressed as a Palestinian, the "egal" and the "abaya" are symptomatic - but the two edged weapons, aren't from that country, but absolutely from Magreb !!! I haven't an rational explanation, excepted if we considered this picture as a "artistic view" not as ethnographic document anyway ... strange, I hope that some Arabic Bro. will come to help us regards à + Dom |
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