Unusual Etch on a Moro Blade

Spunjer · 28th May 2012, 02:39 PM

thank you, delor, for a thorough explanation in the lamination process! would you say that the core is a solid piece, or would it resemble a tuning for (with the edges as tines)? ,

Quote:

(not sure, according to your two last photos which seem to show uniform lamination on the whole blade)

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the last two photos are actually from a different kris i etched on the same day. i added the additional photos as a comparison to the original kris that was posted

delor · 28th May 2012, 07:03 PM

When a blacksmith didn't want to use rare good steel for the whole blade, he had to choose between two kind of construction :
- sandwich : 3 welded layers, with central good steel layer (first photo)
- welded edges : 3 welded bars, with good steel at the edges only (second photo)

Sandwich is much stronger because the welded surfaces are wider. Weld lines are quite irregular because of the strong hammering for the welding of the whole surface. I believe this is the construction of your blade.
(Welded edges are easy to detect because they show very regular and straight weld line because of the light hammering).

Of course, each of the separate parts can either be homogeneous or composite material (laminated & twisted core being the most traditional structures).

Spunjer · 30th May 2012, 04:08 AM

delor,
thank you for the excellent illustrations! it's basically how i pictured the lamination in my mind, and was going to use the google sketchup, but the illustrations you provided are perfect. thanks once again.

Quote:

Sandwich is much stronger because the welded surfaces are wider. Weld lines are quite irregular because of the strong hammering for the welding of the whole surface. I believe this is the construction of your blade.

i think you are spot on on this one. my respect to the pandays of oldjust went up another notch..

delor · 1st June 2012, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spunjer

my respect to the pandays of old just went up another notch..

Yes, blacksmith of the ancient times, especially Merovingians and Hindu ones (but not only) did prodigious works we hardly can reproduce nowadays, although we now have machines and deep understanding of chemical and physical issues about steels...

Spunjer · 1st June 2012, 03:01 PM

incidentally i was watching "Weapon Masters" last night and the episode was "Katana". it showed how the japanese made their famous sword. very fascinating, to say the least!

ThePepperSkull · 6th June 2012, 08:41 PM

Is the second configuration the type of welded edge we see on twisctore blades?

delor · 8th June 2012, 10:18 PM

Twisted and forge welded bars can be used in any kind of blade construction. Nevertheless, the second type of construction is more likely to be used for twisted core, because it allows the removal of a lot of material from each side of the blade without impinging the construction itself.

By the way, to obtain a twisted "stars" pattern (by example like the turkish ribbon), one will have to :
- forge weld a laminated bar,
- twist the bar
- reforge it to square section
- forge weld it within the whole blade construction (there may be more than only one twisted bar...)
- grind to remove approximatively 1/3 of the material from each side of the blade in order to reach the twisted stars pattern which lays inside the bar.

So, you are right, the most usual construction will be made of the welding of a single bar or multi-bars core with separate edges.

28th May 2012, 07:03 PM	#2
delor Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Marseille - France Posts: 73	When a blacksmith didn't want to use rare good steel for the whole blade, he had to choose between two kind of construction : - sandwich : 3 welded layers, with central good steel layer (first photo) - welded edges : 3 welded bars, with good steel at the edges only (second photo) Sandwich is much stronger because the welded surfaces are wider. Weld lines are quite irregular because of the strong hammering for the welding of the whole surface. I believe this is the construction of your blade. (Welded edges are easy to detect because they show very regular and straight weld line because of the light hammering). Of course, each of the separate parts can either be homogeneous or composite material (laminated & twisted core being the most traditional structures). Attached Images

1st June 2012, 03:01 PM	#5
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	incidentally i was watching "Weapon Masters" last night and the episode was "Katana". it showed how the japanese made their famous sword. very fascinating, to say the least!

6th June 2012, 08:41 PM	#6
ThePepperSkull Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 338	Is the second configuration the type of welded edge we see on twisctore blades?

8th June 2012, 10:18 PM	#7
delor Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Marseille - France Posts: 73	Twisted and forge welded bars can be used in any kind of blade construction. Nevertheless, the second type of construction is more likely to be used for twisted core, because it allows the removal of a lot of material from each side of the blade without impinging the construction itself. By the way, to obtain a twisted "stars" pattern (by example like the turkish ribbon), one will have to : - forge weld a laminated bar, - twist the bar - reforge it to square section - forge weld it within the whole blade construction (there may be more than only one twisted bar...) - grind to remove approximatively 1/3 of the material from each side of the blade in order to reach the twisted stars pattern which lays inside the bar. So, you are right, the most usual construction will be made of the welding of a single bar or multi-bars core with separate edges.