A very rare German Gothic War Hammer 'Dolchstreithammer'

fernando · 9th May 2012, 01:30 PM

A splendor-item, when carried, should be held in hands and not hanging from the belt ?

Meaning that, the belt hook detail, suggests this is an actual weapon ?

It is a splendid piece, in any case; but the price

cornelistromp · 9th May 2012, 01:36 PM

@ Fernando, I agree it is a weapon.

Herewith a example from the klingbeil collection lot 228 (€1600) attributed to the 19thC. this one looks almost similar to the Baegert Altar piece.

Swordfish · 11th May 2012, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cornelistromp

@ Fernando, I agree it is a weapon.

Herewith a example from the klingbeil collection lot 228 (€1600) attributed to the 19thC. this one looks almost similar to the Baegert Altar piece.

I was not able to be present at the Klingbeil sale. Therefore I know this Dolchstreithammer only from the catalogue. It looked not good to me because the blade was fixed with neither a pommel nor the rivetted tang. It seemed to be fixed by a rivet through the fist. At this time I have not yet found the picture from the Altar of 1475 with the very similar piece.

Yesterday I visited a collecting friend of mine. He was the one who acquired the piece at the auction for the very low price. After close examination, it was clear for me that it is a genuine piece. This again demonstrates that examination from pictures is not enough, you have to examine the pieces in reality to be sure. Therefore I missed to make a bargain buy. My friend also knew from where this piece came. It was excavated many years ago in Belgium.

Best

cornelistromp · 11th May 2012, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swordfish

I was not able to be present at the Klingbeil sale. Therefore I know this Dolchstreithammer only from the catalogue. It looked not good to me because the blade was fixed with neither a pommel nor the rivetted tang. It seemed to be fixed by a rivet through the fist. At this time I have not yet found the picture from the Altar of 1475 with the very similar piece.

Yesterday I visited a collecting friend of mine. He was the one who acquired the piece at the auction for the very low price. After close examination, it was clear for me that it is a genuine piece. This again demonstrates that examination from pictures is not enough, you have to examine the pieces in reality to be sure. Therefore I missed to make a bargain buy. My friend also knew from where this piece came. It was excavated many years ago in Belgium.

Best

This does not surprise me I found the hammer very good looking, when in doubt the specialist is often choosing the safest route. often the faulty one.
particularly with medieval short riding swords. these swords are often categorized as shortened or 19th century.

best,

Swordfish · 11th May 2012, 10:42 PM

I don't remember that there has been a medieval short sword (in not excavated condition) on the market in the last years.
Do you know one?

cornelistromp · 12th May 2012, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swordfish

I don't remember that there has been a medieval short sword (in not excavated condition) on the market in the last years.
Do you know one?

for instance HH 64 lot 2389

Swordfish · 12th May 2012, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cornelistromp

for instance HH 64 lot 2389

It may be original, but anyway it is excavated. I usually do not collect excavated items, except made of bronze, because I hate corrosion.

Best

Glaive203 · 3rd December 2012, 02:42 AM

TY Swordfish for posting this. There's another illustration of these "hand hammers" in a Czech manuscript showing Jan Zizka with a date of 1424 under it.

As for the dispute between long or short bec de corbins. The martel remained in use long after the middle ages. Many nadziak husarski have these short beaks and were clearly weapons. The civilian versions of the nadziak (called Obuch) had their beaks bent down or even back.

I think the difference was between "stopping power" for the shorter beaks and "killing power" for the longer ones. A good rap to the head will stun must foes, effectively taking them out, allowing one to deliver more blows or capture them.

Dmitry that's not overkill. To kill quickly one needs to scramble the brain like that. Neither of those quarrel piles was a fatal shot, speaking as a hunter who has killed around 12,000 times and yes I have broken skulls with the back side of hatchets.

9th May 2012, 01:36 PM	#2
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,060	@ Fernando, I agree it is a weapon. Herewith a example from the klingbeil collection lot 228 (€1600) attributed to the 19thC. this one looks almost similar to the Baegert Altar piece. Attached Images Last edited by cornelistromp; 9th May 2012 at 01:58 PM.

9th May 2012, 01:30 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	A splendor-item, when carried, should be held in hands and not hanging from the belt ? Meaning that, the belt hook detail, suggests this is an actual weapon ? It is a splendid piece, in any case; but the price

11th May 2012, 10:42 PM	#5
Swordfish Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 129	I don't remember that there has been a medieval short sword (in not excavated condition) on the market in the last years. Do you know one?

3rd December 2012, 02:42 AM	#8
Glaive203 Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 12	TY Swordfish for posting this. There's another illustration of these "hand hammers" in a Czech manuscript showing Jan Zizka with a date of 1424 under it. As for the dispute between long or short bec de corbins. The martel remained in use long after the middle ages. Many nadziak husarski have these short beaks and were clearly weapons. The civilian versions of the nadziak (called Obuch) had their beaks bent down or even back. I think the difference was between "stopping power" for the shorter beaks and "killing power" for the longer ones. A good rap to the head will stun must foes, effectively taking them out, allowing one to deliver more blows or capture them. Dmitry that's not overkill. To kill quickly one needs to scramble the brain like that. Neither of those quarrel piles was a fatal shot, speaking as a hunter who has killed around 12,000 times and yes I have broken skulls with the back side of hatchets.