Two handed swords

Matchlock · 25th April 2012, 07:23 PM

As announced in post # 54, here is my documentation on characteristic Katzbalger copies; they just ended at auction at Hermann Historica's.
The first item failed to sell.

Best,
Michael

Matchlock · 25th April 2012, 07:28 PM

The third and last piece.

Stylistically, it was the one closest to a genuine early-16th c. Katzbalger.

m

elfina · 29th April 2012, 03:28 AM

I find this discussion on the authenticity of various katzbalgers totally fascinating and truthfully, quite intimidating due to the fact that I had been wanting to buy one for my own collection. Given the number of fakes, it seems this is one type of sword for beginning collectors to totally avoid! Can anyone tell me where most of the historismus katzbalgers originate, particularly the blades? The patination and wear on most of them look totally convincing!! (I'm assuming they're not naturally aged Victorian era copies) Also, do makers of 16th century fakes concentrate most of their efforts on katzbalgers and two handers?

fernando · 29th April 2012, 09:31 AM

Welcome to the forum, Elfina.

I am certain you will soon have a reply to your query.

Matchlock · 29th April 2012, 05:23 PM

Hi Elfina,

I cannot but totally consent to all your fears.

It takes years of closest possible study on the basis of many objects, genuine and fake alike, in order to tell them apart - and sometimes even the expert opinions vary.

Best,
Michael

elfina · 2nd May 2012, 05:19 AM

Thanks for your reply, Michael!

Actually, my lack of expertise on katzbalgers and other 16th century swords has already cost me a lot of money. About eight years ago I purchased what was purportedly a genuine katzbalger from a dealer (now deceased) who shall go nameless. I found out through Bonhams (I think it was Bonhams and Butterfields then) it was a fake as were the bastard sword, war hammer, and two handed sword I also bought from this dealer (some of the items were not strictly fakes apparently; rather, they were Victorian copies, though the dealer described them as genuine originals). I ended up disposing of all of them through Bonhams in their San Francisco sale of June 29, 2005. If you have a copy of this catalog, the four items I mentioned are on page 79: 2413, 2414, 2415, and 2416.

Eric

Matchlock · 2nd May 2012, 03:53 PM

Hi Eric,

I am sad to hear this, though it was just another version of the same old story.

I am sure you have doing a lot better with the stuff you are collecting now, and I have noticed Jim commenting on your espada ancha!

Best,
Michael

25th April 2012, 07:23 PM	#1
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Documentation on Katzbalger Copies at Auction As announced in post # 54, here is my documentation on characteristic Katzbalger copies; they just ended at auction at Hermann Historica's. The first item failed to sell. Best, Michael Attached Images

25th April 2012, 07:28 PM	#2
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	The third and last piece. Stylistically, it was the one closest to a genuine early-16th c. Katzbalger. m Attached Images

29th April 2012, 03:28 AM	#3
elfina Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 12	Historismus katzbalgers I find this discussion on the authenticity of various katzbalgers totally fascinating and truthfully, quite intimidating due to the fact that I had been wanting to buy one for my own collection. Given the number of fakes, it seems this is one type of sword for beginning collectors to totally avoid! Can anyone tell me where most of the historismus katzbalgers originate, particularly the blades? The patination and wear on most of them look totally convincing!! (I'm assuming they're not naturally aged Victorian era copies) Also, do makers of 16th century fakes concentrate most of their efforts on katzbalgers and two handers?

29th April 2012, 09:31 AM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Welcome to the forum, Elfina. I am certain you will soon have a reply to your query.

29th April 2012, 05:23 PM	#5
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Elfina, I cannot but totally consent to all your fears. It takes years of closest possible study on the basis of many objects, genuine and fake alike, in order to tell them apart - and sometimes even the expert opinions vary. Best, Michael

2nd May 2012, 05:19 AM	#6
elfina Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 12	Thanks for your reply, Michael! Actually, my lack of expertise on katzbalgers and other 16th century swords has already cost me a lot of money. About eight years ago I purchased what was purportedly a genuine katzbalger from a dealer (now deceased) who shall go nameless. I found out through Bonhams (I think it was Bonhams and Butterfields then) it was a fake as were the bastard sword, war hammer, and two handed sword I also bought from this dealer (some of the items were not strictly fakes apparently; rather, they were Victorian copies, though the dealer described them as genuine originals). I ended up disposing of all of them through Bonhams in their San Francisco sale of June 29, 2005. If you have a copy of this catalog, the four items I mentioned are on page 79: 2413, 2414, 2415, and 2416. Eric

2nd May 2012, 03:53 PM	#7
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Eric, I am sad to hear this, though it was just another version of the same old story. I am sure you have doing a lot better with the stuff you are collecting now, and I have noticed Jim commenting on your espada ancha! Best, Michael