Maghrebi Moroccan Nimcha??

[kahnjar1]

Hi Steve,
My original comment about the possibliity of a hilt replacement was based on 1.No ferrule 2. The knuckle guard recessed.
Here is a pic from an earlier post showing how the knuckle guard usually is.
Regards Stu

[G. McCormack]

Looks like an old nimcha guard with a new Indian blade and grip.

[Rick]

Looks like we're really going to have to be on our toes now .
I fear the boys from Rajahstan are branching out .

I would love to be found wrong; but I think Gene and G. are correct .

May we see the pommel end ?

Here is my old fellow .

[Dom]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

...snip...
Here is a pic from an earlier post showing how the knuckle guard usually is.

but ... it's my "nimcha" ... Stuward
pure Maghrebian (Morocco), excepted the blade as well as 98% of them
who is most certainly European

what wrote "Gene" made sense,
the Indian craftsmen (some) became too much "bloody" by the duplicates that they sprayed on the market,
not only edged weapons, but also other "ethnographic items" such as ;
astrolabes (easy to discern), Islamic's talismanic bowls (much more difficult to recognize) ... and so
they have become very clever ... too much ... Syrians also are good competitors to them on the same field ...

the nimcha blade of "archer" is very disquieting, specially in Morocco,
even in Maghreb, because looks absolutly Indian production,
I never saw a similar blade associated to a Maghrebian edged weapon
may be, is it arrived by the "maritime trade" ??

à +

Dom

[kahnjar1]

.......yes DOM it is yours. Hope using the pic was OK, but I guess a little late now Was the best example I could find from previous posts to illustrate what concerned me about the hilt on the post by Archer.
Hope all is well with you.
Regards Stu

[Dom]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

.......yes DOM it is yours. Hope using the pic was OK, but I guess a little late now ...snip...

don't be worry my Friend
at least I was flattered, that my "nimcha" has been choosing as example
otherwise, everything is under control ... thanks, hope so the same for you

à +

Dom

[archer]

I've not worked with a Damascus blade before and assume that unlike a wootz blade there shouldn't be a high risk of losing the pattern. My question is knowing now that the blade was originally sharp should I restore the edge? Doing this now before etching would mean that a third etch wouldn't be required. polishing wootz blades usually restores their edge in the process.
there is a chance the over polished areas were intentionally done to force the Kirk ladder like pattern. What is your advice at this point? I think the blades original features may well be restored. If so should the next hunt be for an appropriate hilt?

[RSWORD]

I'm leaning towards this blade being an antique blade. I don't think the new production blades with the bold birdseye patterning are tempered and have no flex to them at all. You do find bold, active pattern welds in antique Indian swords. I attach 2 pictures of an 18th century Indian saber from my collection. It has one of the boldest patterns I have ever seen. Fact is, you see a huge wide variety of patterns from India but they certainly were capable of this back in the day. Another possibility is Germany. You find many bold pattern welds produced from there. If you have a copy of Sasche book "On Damascus Swords" you can see a wide variety of German pattern welding. This could be another possibility. But if the blade has good flex, is tempered and can take an edge, then I think you have a very nice piece of pattern welded steel. Congratulations!

[Atlantia]

Hi Rick,

That's a beauty for sure.
That's the kind of polish and level of etch that I'd want to see on an antique example. Not the very deep etch that is usually seen on modern pieces and seems to have been the original level of etch on Steve's.
Also, Steve's doesn't look to have ever had the final edge grind done. An unfinished edge that is left that blunt would be unusual on a genuine blade but is the norm on modern Indian pieces.
However, just to throw the cat amonst the pidgeons... I have seen modern examples that are tempered, sharp and well finished.
It's somewhat worrying that there is any ambiguity over the attribution of Steve's sword. We're all leaning one way or the other, but the 'forum' is pretty split on it.

ATB
Gene

[archer]

I edited my last post yes that is the edge. The file feels like the edge is harder than the back, later I'll try a real jewelers file. Stu, I bought it thinking the pattern was an etch job and thinking the hilt was a probable replacement.

When I started looking closer I noticed the edges bluntness and hearing so much about Arabian dance swords. I had to ask I'll ask again and post a few shots after a bit of etching. Did some Pasha want to make sure His dancing
girls didn't get too wild?

The results of the etch after degreasing only for a prep!!! Just looked under the lower quillion it is sharper there than the rest of the blade. Who's smiling then?

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by archer

I edited my last post yes that is the edge. The file feels like the edge is harder than the back, later I'll try a real jewelers file. Stu, I bought it thinking the pattern was an etch job and thinking the hilt was a probable replacement.

When I started looking closer I noticed the edges bluntness and hearing so much about Arabian dance swords. I had to ask I'll ask again and post a few shots after a bit of etching. Did some Pasha want to make sure His dancing
girls didn't get too wild?

The results of the etch after degreasing only for a prep!!! Just looked under the lower quillion it is sharper there than the rest of the blade. Who's smiling then?

Steve,

The fact that there is a flex in the blade and the edge feels harder than the spine is certainly a good turn of events.
If it was mine and I was keeping it I'd sharpen it.
I'd want to see the pattern disappearing into just layers near the edge and I'd try to not 'explore' to deeply into the birdseye patterned areas when finishing the edgefor fear of 'rubbing them through' and finding layered steel underneath.
So, I'd confine the regrinding to about 1cm from the cutting edge and then repolish the whole blade to a uniform smothness and then try a gentle scratch with a few different etchants and see which is giving a nice contrast without biting to deeply.

ATB
Gene

[ariel]

I'd like to second Rick's concern that the "boys from Rajastan" are branching out and are getting better and better. On top, their asking prices go up indicating their successful experiences with earlier offerings. We used to worry about Chinese fakers, but they apparently do not hold the candle to their Indian ilk.
Life is getting tougher and tougher.....
I just held in my hands a blade by the Russian master Ivan Kirpichev: beautiful, complex Khorasan/Taban, identical in all characteristics to the best Safavid examples. He is perfectly honest and very proud of his achievements: marks the blades with his name. No worry about him.
But if he could do it, the "dirty dozen" will not be very far behind. We have to prepare ourselves for a flood of Assadullah's blades indistinguishable from the best Fiegel's items.

[archer]

After considerable time using a diamond lap stone on the edge only it now has a curved (rounded) 2 /32 inch bevel that is just at the point of cutting paper easily. I stopped there to avoid future edge blunting by someone with safety concerns. Given you'd rework the blunted edge. Would you go further to blend in the original shape?

After the re-etch there was a fairly defined laddered Kirk effect on one side. the odd side was a little less defined. I marked one of the more noticeable" forced?" patterns the others are not noticeable. Evidently the maker must have meant for the blade to be stained, does that help clarify anything? As Dom said earlier at least this may be used as an example. Steve

[Cerjak]

Here a typical one with European blade
Regards

Cerjak

[Rick]

I'm sorry, but I just can't see any deliberate attempts at the formation of a 'kirk' pattern on this blade .