Keris Sheikh Ahmad Qomi

[David]

Where and from when does this illustration originate?

[Sajen]

Very interesting! I have the same quetion like David.

Regards,

Detlef

[HangPC2]

Originally Posted by David

Where and from when does this illustration originate?

Originally Posted by Sajen

Very interesting! I have the same quetion like David.

Regards,

Detlef

The Bunnag Lineage Club


http://www.bunnag.in.th/english/history_05.html

[David]

Sorry, i guess i wasn't clear enough and i am afraid you have misinterpreted my question. I don't want to know where you sourced the image from. I want to know what the source of the image itself is. In other words, when was the image created and where. In the smaller overall image it appears to be a door of some sort (it looks like there is a ring as a for handle half way down on the left) or the lid of a box.
I want to know when and where this image was created because i think it is fair to assume that the closer to the actual time of of this Sheik's life it was made, the more likely it is to be an accurate depiction of the form of his actual keris.

[PenangsangII]

with this article and painted image, I cannot help but wondering whether Siam (Ayothya) was actually a muslim state...?

[Gustav]

Originally Posted by PenangsangII

with this article and painted image, I cannot help but wondering whether Siam (Ayothya) was actually a muslim state...?

Yes, and this was one of its main mosques.

[PenangsangII]

Gustav, it looks like a Buddhist temple to me...

I am talking about Siam circa 1700 AD before it was sacked by Sukkhotai

[rasdan]

Smart answer Gustav. Cool research.

Penansang, I am not a specialist in this, but probably this would help.

http://journalarticle.ukm.my/514/1/1.pdf

Sheikh Ahmad (maybe the one discussed here) is mentioned in page 208 of this article.

I have no idea when the drawing in the first post of this thread were drawn.

[Nathaniel]

Originally Posted by David

Sorry, i guess i wasn't clear enough and i am afraid you have misinterpreted my question. I don't want to know where you sourced the image from. I want to know what the source of the image itself is. In other words, when was the image created and where. In the smaller overall image it appears to be a door of some sort (it looks like there is a ring as a for handle half way down on the left) or the lid of a box.
I want to know when and where this image was created because i think it is fair to assume that the closer to the actual time of of this Sheik's life it was made, the more likely it is to be an accurate depiction of the form of his actual keris.

Yes, I agree with David...the painting is on a door...a double door....to a Buddhist temple. I'm curious to know which Wat. I think the figure is painted to show the diversity of individuals/ groups in Ayutthaya/ early Rattanakosin period. I doubt you will be able to find out when that particular mural is done...but you might. I'm guessing this is a more recent mural...ie 1900's+


This could not be from a door of a Thai Mosque. You will not find human images depicted in the Mosque.

[Nathaniel]

And I think you guys might have your names mixed up...you mean Ayutthaya Kingdom before they where sacked by the Burmese twice in the 1700s. Sukhothai Kingdom never sacked Ayutthaya. Sukhothai however was on the decline and incorporated into Ayutthaya at tributary state in the late 1300's.

[Nathaniel]

Originally Posted by David

Sorry, i guess i wasn't clear enough and i am afraid you have misinterpreted my question. I don't want to know where you sourced the image from. I want to know what the source of the image itself is. In other words, when was the image created and where. In the smaller overall image it appears to be a door of some sort (it looks like there is a ring as a for handle half way down on the left) or the lid of a box.
I want to know when and where this image was created because i think it is fair to assume that the closer to the actual time of of this Sheik's life it was made, the more likely it is to be an accurate depiction of the form of his actual keris.

I was just told this door painting comes from Wat Somanat Wihan in Bangkok.

http://www.watsomanas.com/eng/history.php

"Wat Somanas Vihara is a second grade royel monastery. It was established by King Rama IV (who was a monk for 27 years before he ascended the Throne) in 1853 in memory of Her Royel Highness Princess Somanasvatanavadee, His first beloved Queen (Her Royal Highness Princess Somanasvatanavadee was born on Sunday, December 12, 1834, married in 1851 and passed away in 1852)."

There is a book on this temple's murals:

Temple Mural Paintings at Wat Somanat Wihan
Hard Cover
Large Format
Muang Boran
1995 Bangkok
116 pages
ISBN 9748235645

[David]

Nice research Nathaniel, thank you...

[Nathaniel]

Okay. Hmm latest update. I knew I had seen this picture before so even after I was told by a friend it was at this particular temple, I search through some of my Thai art books and found the same picture. The label says only that it is a door of a cabinet (which admittedly makes much better sense vs a Buddhist temple door), Ayutthaya period and that it is located in the National Museum in Bangkok.

[Nathaniel]

Okay, a little ridiculous I know but I continued to think about this one more...how if this painting is from a cabinet, I could picture the exact type of Thai cabinet it belongs too...often called a manuscript cabinet. I did a Google image search for "Thai Gold Lacquer Cabinet" to see what I could find so I could show the forum members some examples of what I'm talking about and came up with this

[Nathaniel]

Originally Posted by HangPC2

The Bunnag Lineage Club


http://www.bunnag.in.th/english/history_05.html

Interesting website, HangPC2.

Also this article is good from Thammsat University.

http://seap.einaudi.cornell.edu/syst...imThailand.pdf