Medieval European Daggers and short Swords

Swordfish · 21st April 2012, 08:18 PM

Dagger in the shape of a Sword, first half 15th century, from the castillon find.

cornelistromp · 21st April 2012, 08:23 PM

yes nice one I handled it during the last London Park Lane A&Af 2012, I believe the dagger, or with 63cm length perhaps a short sword? no it is not, has gone from German to English property.
Sir Guy Francis laking first mentioned the term Guillon dagger in a record of european armour and arms through seven centuries.

best,

Swordfish · 21st April 2012, 08:33 PM

Sorry, you are right, surely a short sword an no dagger. What is the blade length of yours in the previous post?

Best

cornelistromp · 21st April 2012, 08:40 PM

I need to find where I've stored it away, however, despite being dredged up from a Dutch river complete as the picture (of course w/o the roping), I suspect that the blade is later than pommel and guard.
Nevertheless, daggers with wheelpommels and crossguards are very rare.

oh Michael it is somewhere in my house.

best,

Swordfish · 21st April 2012, 08:45 PM

Blade sections like this were in use in the 14th and 15th century, therefore the blade and the hilt can well belong together. I date the complete dagger or short sword? to the second half of the 14th century.

Best

Swordfish · 22nd April 2012, 08:58 AM

Iconographic sources paintings

1 Painting Austrian collection 1448 Ballock Dagger?
2 Painting Austrian collection 1457 Rondel Dagger
3 Painting Austrian collection c. 1425 Rondel Dagger
4 Fresco Church Slovakia c.1310 Ballock Dagger
5 Painting Church Czech Rep. c. 1360 Type 1f
6 Fresco Como Italy c.1350 Baselard
7 Heidelberger Liederhandschrift c. 1330 Type 1f?
8 Nat. Libr. Netherlands c.1480 Rondel Dagger
9 Painting Santa Croce Italy 1490 Ear Dagger
10 Vatican Library 1348 Baselard
11 Library Yale University 1410 Baselard
12 Painting Austrian collection 1446 Rondel Dagger

Swordfish · 22nd April 2012, 12:17 PM

Iconographic sources effigies.

I Theoderich v. Lichtenhain+1368 Type 1g
II Albrecht v. Hohenlohe +1338 Type 1g
III Heinr. Beyer v. Boppard +1355 Type 1g
IV Heinr. v. Seinsheim +1345 Type 1g
V Herzog v. Sachsen c. 1340 Baselard
VI Konrad Kolbe v. Boppard +1393 Ballock Dagger
VII Konrad v. Neumarkt +1296 Ballock Dagger
VIII Rezzo v. Bächlingen +1360 Type 1g
IX Weikard Frosch +1375 Rondel Dagger?

21st April 2012, 08:18 PM	#1
Swordfish Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 129	Dagger in the shape of a Sword, first half 15th century, from the castillon find. Attached Images

21st April 2012, 08:45 PM	#5
Swordfish Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 129	Blade sections like this were in use in the 14th and 15th century, therefore the blade and the hilt can well belong together. I date the complete dagger or short sword? to the second half of the 14th century. Best Last edited by Swordfish; 21st April 2012 at 09:03 PM.

22nd April 2012, 08:58 AM	#6
Swordfish Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 129	Iconographic sources paintings 1 Painting Austrian collection 1448 Ballock Dagger? 2 Painting Austrian collection 1457 Rondel Dagger 3 Painting Austrian collection c. 1425 Rondel Dagger 4 Fresco Church Slovakia c.1310 Ballock Dagger 5 Painting Church Czech Rep. c. 1360 Type 1f 6 Fresco Como Italy c.1350 Baselard 7 Heidelberger Liederhandschrift c. 1330 Type 1f? 8 Nat. Libr. Netherlands c.1480 Rondel Dagger 9 Painting Santa Croce Italy 1490 Ear Dagger 10 Vatican Library 1348 Baselard 11 Library Yale University 1410 Baselard 12 Painting Austrian collection 1446 Rondel Dagger Attached Images Last edited by Swordfish; 22nd April 2012 at 12:56 PM.

22nd April 2012, 12:17 PM	#7
Swordfish Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 129	Iconographic sources effigies. I Theoderich v. Lichtenhain+1368 Type 1g II Albrecht v. Hohenlohe +1338 Type 1g III Heinr. Beyer v. Boppard +1355 Type 1g IV Heinr. v. Seinsheim +1345 Type 1g V Herzog v. Sachsen c. 1340 Baselard VI Konrad Kolbe v. Boppard +1393 Ballock Dagger VII Konrad v. Neumarkt +1296 Ballock Dagger VIII Rezzo v. Bächlingen +1360 Type 1g IX Weikard Frosch +1375 Rondel Dagger? Attached Images

21st April 2012, 08:23 PM	#2
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,060	yes nice one I handled it during the last London Park Lane A&Af 2012, I believe the dagger, or with 63cm length perhaps a short sword? no it is not, has gone from German to English property. Sir Guy Francis laking first mentioned the term Guillon dagger in a record of european armour and arms through seven centuries. best,

21st April 2012, 08:33 PM	#3
Swordfish Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 129	Sorry, you are right, surely a short sword an no dagger. What is the blade length of yours in the previous post? Best

21st April 2012, 08:40 PM	#4
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,060	I need to find where I've stored it away, however, despite being dredged up from a Dutch river complete as the picture (of course w/o the roping), I suspect that the blade is later than pommel and guard. Nevertheless, daggers with wheelpommels and crossguards are very rare. oh Michael it is somewhere in my house. best,