Two handed swords

[Jean-Marc S.]

As to my cat (Katz), it remains outdoor because it probably saw that the 16th century Katzbalger is missing its original scabbard....

[Jean-Marc S.]

Sorry for the quality of some pics...

[Jean-Marc S.]

[Dmitry]

The sword in post #20 is indeed a replica, in my opinion.
Just my $.02

[Matchlock]

Quite right, Dmitry,

I would say the blade with its way too many nicks looks 'overaged', apart from the fact that the sectioning of the blade (lenticular cross section) is not corrrect and the overall length is too short.

Best,
Michael

[Dmitry]

Originally Posted by Matchlock

Quite right, Dmitry,

I would say the blade with its way too many nicks looks 'overaged', apart from the fact that the sectioning of the blade (lenticular cross section) is not corrrect and the overall length is too short.

Best,
Michael

The crescents on the blade don't look to inspiring either. The dozens of nicks on the blade were supposed to make it look like a battle weapon, I guess.

[Matchlock]

Exactly, Dmitry,

And to 'prove' the 'great age' of the piece!

m

[cornelistromp]

Originally Posted by Matchlock

Quite right, Dmitry,

I would say the blade with its way too many nicks looks 'overaged', apart from the fact that the sectioning of the blade (lenticular cross section) is not corrrect and the overall length is too short.

Best,
Michael

Originally Posted by Dmitry

The crescents on the blade don't look to inspiring either. The dozens of nicks on the blade were supposed to make it look like a battle weapon, I guess.

Gentlemen, a small side-note. stand apart from the weapon of course.

a lenticular cross section is possible on katzbalgers in the 16thC , it even came on early medieval swords.

best,

for more twohanders please see;
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ight=twohander

[Matchlock]

Originally Posted by cornelistromp

a lenticular cross section is possible on katzbalgers in the 16thC , it even came on early medieval swords.

Hi Jasper,

I learned from my collector friend that original Katzbalgers never hat lenticular cross sections.

Of course I respect your differing opinion. Nobody's perfect, after all!

m


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[Jean-Marc S.]

[Jean-Marc S.]

Hello,

In reference to the 'Three moons' motif mark found on blade of 16th century Katzbalger : as mentioned previously, such an IDENTICAL 'three moons' motif is found on German coat-of-arms (see third quarter) of Sachsen-Lauenburg, indicating an actual german origin of such motif, rather than african or so (as suggested in some posts). I will search in other german cities coat-of-arms too.

jm

[Jean-Marc S.]

Hello,

The 'three orbs and crosses' motif (three orbs and crosses arranged in a triangle) is described to be typical german mark of the mid-16th century. There is a previous post in the forum showing exactly the same pattern of three orbs and crosses arranged in a triangle.

jm

[Jean-Marc S.]

Hello,

Here are some information from specialized books, that I got on the web (Rudolf Cronau's Geschichte der Solinger Klingenindustrie, published in 1885; Gyngell's Armourers marks, page 30).

- The shape of 'orb and cross' motif found on katzbalger's blade is exactly the same as the one shown on pic (plate 1: number 24, and plate 2: middle orb mark), indicating a 16th century period, coherent with what is expected for a 16th century katzbalger's blade;

- The 'three orbs and crosses' motif -with orbs and crosses arranged in a triangle- is also reported to be typical German 16th century (not shown in this post: I have to refind it on the web ), also coherent with what is expected for a 16th century katzbalger's blade;

- The 'Passau running wolf' motif etched on both sides of katzbalger's blade is exactly the same as the one described to be mid-16th century, also coherent with what is expected for a 16th century katzbalger's blade. Interestingly, it has some additional details that were also reported amongst known variants of the 'Passau running wolf' (see plate 3, number 14).

Such blade marks are therefore totally coherent with a German 16th century blade...

jm

[Jean-Marc S.]

Hi,

Here is another 16th century katzbalger (found among forum posts) that does not show any fullers on blade. Interestingly, a renaissance poem is etched on the blade

jm

[Jean-Marc S.]

Here is an additional pic of katzbalger.

[Matchlock]

I am sorry to say that the two Katzbalgers last posted are spitting images of 19th c. copies! No genuine Renaissance sword is known to have a poem on its blade! This was the characteristically overexaggerating, idealizing 19th c. Neo-Renaissance manner.

Best,
Michael

[cornelistromp]

Originally Posted by Matchlock

I am sorry to say that the two Katzbalgers last posted are spitting images of 19th c. copies! No genuine Renaissance sword is known to have a poem on its blade! This was the characteristically overexaggerating, idealizing 19th c. Neo-Renaissance manner.

Best,
Michael

@ Michael,

which two katzbalgers do you mean ?, the first katzbalger is posted by Lee in your katzbalger thread!!!!(also in post#37 of this thread)
I do believe Lee's katzbalger is a genuine piece! probably with a later added poem.

and the second one is the katzbalger of Jean-Marc under discussion


@ Jean-Marc
the type and shape of the katzbalger are in accordance with katzbalgers which are known.
The symbols from the 16th century are also well known.

nevertheless there are some features that I find difficult to place:
- The grip is made outof one single piece of iron, there is no horn ring used between the guard and pommelgrip, this differs from the known katzbalgers of this type.

- The three moons in the blade are struck in as a makers mark, a coat of arms would have been engraved in the blade not stamped.
Also, the size and position is rather unusual for a makers mark.

- The Passau wolf and orbs are engraved very lightly on the surface.
many of these marks are deeper and often also have an inlay in latten hammered in.

- The "business" damage to the edge is ​​too extreme.

I really hope like you that this turns out to be an original katzbalger, but my advice is to have this investigated by a specialist with the piece in hands.

hopes it helps

best,