Show off your Chinese fighting knives :)

[Timo Nieminen]

Originally Posted by Neil

I have also read somewhere that these forms of daggers were also made in San Fransisco in the mid to late 19th century. Are others familiar with this information. If so, can you elaborate on it.

They were certainly used in San Francisco; they're a classic part of the weaponry of Chinese gangs of the area. Other weapons of note include butterfly swords, Japanese tanto, truncheons/clubs including cha/sai, cleavers, axes, and the occasional revolver.

The magic google search terms, which will find some contemporary illustrations (from scare journalism?), are "Highbinder weapons".

How much was made locally, I don't know.

[Neil]

Thanks for your comment. Although I should have been more specific. I believe I read they were made by American cutlers in San Fransisco for the Chinese-American market as well, although I can not remember their names. I will try to find the information.

Edited:
Oh, I found the old post and did not remember it properly. Appears to be less specific than I thought.

[Lew]

You should google old knife makers of San Francisco Will &Finck made versions of this type of Chinese Bowie knife. This photo is from my old copy of the book.

[KuKulzA28]

Absolutely fascinated by the info you guys are presenting.

[David R]

This has me wondering about a relic "bowie" style knife I have. Lathe turned bone grip, German silver mounts, and a blade with faint Chinese characters visible on it. The blade has the back chamfered for about half it's length as well as the typical bowie clip back. I will try and get photo's posted....my phone camera is bust, so I will have to get a friend to take some. It looks like one of those shown above. I assumed Chinese made for the western market, now I wonder if it is US made for local Chinese.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Lew

You should google old knife makers of San Francisco Will &Finck made versions of this type of Chinese Bowie knife. This photo is from my old copy of the book.

That's really interesting. Thank you Lew for sharing. The fact that they were being made by American Cutlers/knife makers makes me think of two the questions. Were these knives in that high of demand, or just novelties. Also, is it possible that they were more utilitarian oriented than fighting. Meaning the need to cut in more mundane situations no doubt happened more often than combat. Maybe they are on the large side for practical utility, and doubles. I am curious what others think.

I thought I would also put up an example with a scabbard that speaks to one of the original question of what the scabbards were made of. By no means is this definitive, but rather one example.

[KuKulzA28]

Nice picture! I have heard many are made of pig skin, but I would guess any sort of leather would do. Interestingly, there's "Ping Pu" (Taiwan's indigenous peopl eof the plains, now largely assimilated) knives that look quite similar to these Chinese fighting knives, and their sheaths are usually cord-wrapped and wooden.

Well, I think part of the reason for their large size is, well, you could get away with it (socially more acceptable?) better back then. Nowadays in many places having a knife well-suited for killing is already asking for trouble - unless it's covert and hidden from view. But to be honest I think in back in the day, in times of peace and in more affluent areas, unless an acceptable or expected part of man's daily attire, weaponry held in the open was usually not acceptable in most cultures... Then again, soldiers, bandits, thugs, and folks from the countryside lived outside the norms of normal urbanites, right?

Plus, for fighting, a big knife has a lot of advantages. You can stab deeper and have a longer cutting edge to cut and slice. As these are very good stabbers, this would make sense. Aside from concealment and surprise, small knives for fighting don't have those combat advantages. They're also pretty sharp - at least mine is, and the edge is good. For utility, a longer cutting edge is always good. Another thought... the handle is very plain in geometry, comfortable and versatile. This knife can easily be in any normal grip: held edge up or down, blade up or down. A very simple design, but pretty effective.



The participation of American cutlers is very cool, I did not know that. But this makes sense... Europe and America had many skilled smiths/manufacturers and they made blades for local markets everywhere... from Indian and African swords to African, Oceanic, and Latin American machetes... and tomahawks, spears, and arrowheads before that for Native Americans.

[David R]

Sticking my two pennyworth in, I think the heavy pommel is a dead giveaway that it is a fighting knife. It is a style seen on Chinese Jian maces, re the example below. I have pics of others in like style, and I am told it can even appear on swords.

[KuKulzA28]

I've never seen it on swords, but I do agree that it's a fighting oriented weapon and pommels like that aren't typically on utility knives... ever.

I wonder, where did that pommel style originate?
I do see it on maces, Chinese sai, iron rods, and of course these knives.

I've been thinking about utility for this knife, and sure it's got a sharp edge, it can be used for utility. But I think looking for a utility is futile. It was probably a man's everyday carry and meant for defense and murder, but could easily be used for mundane tasks if need be. But the purpose and design of the knife seems be like (like I keep saying) for stabbing. It's got as much utility as a dagger, minus the second edge.

[harimauhk]

Fascinating! I was born in Hong Kong and until Kuk showed me his knife, I'd never seen one of these. I'm going to see if I can find an antique one locally.