FORMING HOT METAL WITH BARE HANDS

[Richard Furrer]

Originally Posted by David

Barry, i saw this kris up for sale, but never for a second thought these indentations were formed at the forging. Their placement does not give that impression. I would be more likely to buy into a story of possible damage from bullets before i would think the former.
As for the possibility of this technique being possible with the fingers i have little doubt, though obviously many examples that we see are not done that way.

I'm afraid I am no help at all with terminology.
As to bullets..remarkable that this blade would have been hit six times and on both sides of the blade...and with no telegraphing of the dent to the opposite side (concave being met with convex..as happens with hail damage to automobiles and all the sheet metal I have in the shop)

As to fingers making those impressions....the spirit is strong, but the flesh is oh so weak.

Vandoo,
Is the patterned pamor nestled into these "finger print" depressions on that blade and not on the opposing side? I would assume this to be the case.

Ric

[David]

Originally Posted by Richard Furrer

As to bullets..remarkable that this blade would have been hit six times and on both sides of the blade...and with no telegraphing of the dent to the opposite side (concave being met with convex..as happens with hail damage to automobiles and all the sheet metal I have in the shop)

Ric, perhaps my sarcasm didn't come through well enough here. When i wrote "I would be more likely to believe..." i meant to imply that i didn't really believe that explanation either, but that it simply seemed more plausible than the former. But both explanations seem implausible to me and these marks appear to be damaged sustained at some point after forging and completely unintentional.

[A. G. Maisey]

A puthut--- or putut--- is a disciple, or servant, or pupil of a holy man. The word exists in Old Javanese. Since the function of a puthut was to protect his teacher, the meaning on a keris blade can be interpreted as protective. However, it does appear to be a later motif, attached to the keris after Islam.

But "puthut" is just the name, and the name may not really indicate the source of inspiration for inclusion. Most keris terminology is comprised of euphemisms, like a lot of belief systems, there is public knowledge and then levels of hidden knowledge.

The number of indentations on a keris pejet that most people will accept as genuine can vary, some people will hold the belief that it can only be a specific number of indentations, placed in a specific way, and this seems to vary depending upon what group of keris fanciers one is aligned with.

The prime identifier for a keris sombro is the eye at the tip of the tang. The legend that goes with this is that she --- Sombro was a woman --- would make a number of blades, string them around her waist, and walk from village to village selling them. She was the daughter of Manca, the grand-daughter Marcukunda, and the great grand-daughter of Kajadsari --- according to Pangeran Wijil.

[David]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

A puthut--- or putut--- is a disciple, or servant, or pupil of a holy man. The word exists in Old Javanese. Since the function of a puthut was to protect his teacher, the meaning on a keris blade can be interpreted as protective. However, it does appear to be a later motif, attached to the keris after Islam.

But "puthut" is just the name, and the name may not really indicate the source of inspiration for inclusion. Most keris terminology is comprised of euphemisms, like a lot of belief systems, there is public knowledge and then levels of hidden knowledge.

Thanks Alan. I now recall receiving this same info on the meaning of puthut before. My reason for inquiring the meaning of the word was more to understand how the name has now become attached to keris sajen, not why it was originally used to describe what we know as the dhapur keris puthut. I ask because it seems to me that the symbolism and meaning of the figural hilts of keris sajen is not the same as the symbolism of this figure in the dhapur puthut. But since all this info is vague and unsubstantiated, perhaps i am wrong. Or perhaps i just ask too many questions...