Little old double barreled pistol

[SERGIU]

Maurice,
No such weapons were ever made in Romania (wallachia or Moldavia) but here in the former austro-hungarian province of Banat we could find a number of this typical boxlock pistols , mainly belgians, but according to marks on the barrels, also german-made pistols and even hungarian. They came cheap, and we found anouncements in local 1880-1890 newspapers for arms dealers who still selled them along with other obsolete small arms like lefaucheux pinfire pepperboxes or one-barrel boxlock pistols. (dealer, Dusan Lazics, Zapolya street in Timisoara, prices: belgian bulldog 5 shots 3,50-5,00 fl.; small velodog revolver engraved 4,00-6,00 fl; boxlock pistol 1,50-2,00 fl)
But all the boxlock pistols in our museum arsenal have octogonal barrels.

[fernando]

Speaking of Belgium (Liege) cheap stuff, this is a (non extreme) approach to how far those gun smiths could go in the XVIII century, when it came to a quality compromise.
This pistol, marked "London", could well be an example made in England, as far as quality is concerned, though it is beleived to have been made in Liege, most probably commissioned by a London retailer ... such conclusion being just because it has no British proof marks, which were a must, even in those days; we know that the English were most obedient to such concept, since long before this period. On the other hand, at such time, Liege gunmakers were not (so) obliged to proof mark their production.
This example still falls into the Queen Anne range, although its barrel is not the turn off type, reason why it is provided with a ramrod. Some authors say that this was the type to be loaded with small shot, to use in the dark and at short distance, not missing the target.

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[Matchlock]

Hi 'Nando,

Very nice sample, that one!

I would date it to the 1760's-70, so strictly speaking it does not really belong to the real Queen Anne group any longer, which usually comprises the late 1600's thru the early 1700's. Moreover, the Queen Anne butts are significantly rounded in a bulbous shape.
I realize, of course, that common language use summarizes much later types among the Q.A. type, even at auction houses.

For a better understanding, I attach images of a 'real' Queen Anne pistol of ca. 1710-20; I just googled them.
And a colored engraving of the Queen of ca. 1706-10.

Best,
Michl

[fernando]

Thank you for your input, Michl,
I assume you are classifying the Queen Anne concept by its Monarch reign date, but the pistol style went on to about 1780 (John W.Burgoyne, for one) .
This example certainly contains far more details relative to a Queen Anne specimen than otherwise: the "L" shaped spring, the cannon barrel, the silver decoration style; even a sliding trigger guard to secure the cocking.

[fernando]

Hi Michl,
Your post editing came during my last post rehearsal .
I am looking at over a dozen pictures in work THE QUEEN ANNE PISTOL 1660-1780 by John W. Burgoyne and, either i am extremely short sighted or the example you googled is the most distant thing there is from a Queen Anne pistol .
Something doesn't fit here; definitely a riddle .

[Matchlock]

Hi 'Nando,

I got used to stick to the definition of - in my mind - one of the best and most knowledgeable firearms historians of the 20th century, and one I learned a lot from: Harold L. Peterson, e.g. The Book of the Gun (1962 and later editions), which still is one of the best and most readable reference works. Unfortunately, the German version was spoilt by a number of cruel translation errors.

As I said, though, judged by the common dealers' and auction houses' standards, your classification, too, is fine. As a principle, however, I am trying to stick to the roots of each term - as well as to the roots of my arms related education.

Best, though typing with a broken right arm still hurting like hell, right on return from the hospital,
Michl

[fernando]

Naturaly things are not just black & white and certainly the Queen Anne has a wide range of variants.
I confess i was more worried to sustain my statement that my example belonged to the Queen Anne range.
Here are some examples from Burgoyne book, some visibly looking like mine ... i hope .

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[fernando]

Originally Posted by Matchlock

... Best, though typing with a broken right arm still hurting like hell, right on return from the hospital,
Michl

Oh my friend !!!
So that's why you have been absent for the last couple weeks ?
How come we didn't know what happened before?
I and the forum wish your quick recovery ... and an even quicker pain relief.

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