Khyber and Choora with Bukharan (?) twists

[fspic]

Originally Posted by ariel

Which one did he refer to?

He referred to the shorter knife in your illustration. The longer one is as we call it here, is a Khyber knife/sword. The short one does have a much longer version which is called a choora. I will try to get a pic of mine and send it to you directly. I also have a khyber "sword" which is rather older and which this party said would have been still longer had not the tip been presumably broken off and blended in the usual upsweep. This one has a metal bird's head grip and koftgari scratching visible. He also said it was likely gold koftgari for that time period and blade and handle type. This latter blade would have been over 30" long.

[ariel]

I said from the beginning that the "shorter one" was choora. It is of a reasonably normal size: 17" in the scabbard.
Wold love to see your example.

[AJ1356]

The so-called apple blossom is a common motive, residents of Bukhara were perdominantly Tajik, so thier handywork would be Tajik not Uzbek. If no collector book is printed on a subject does not mean it does not exist, and is this book the same book that tells you there was an arsenal in Mazar e Sharif, that made stuff with the mosque stamp? I am trying to provide proper information for the benefit of everyone, because there are heaps of wrong information floating around. If you don't want to accept that because it is not in a book, that is your right.

[Rick]

And we will all take a deep breath and smile at one another before we continue, yes ?

[ariel]

Originally Posted by AJ1356

The so-called apple blossom is a common motive, residents of Bukhara were perdominantly Tajik, so thier handywork would be Tajik not Uzbek. If no collector book is printed on a subject does not mean it does not exist, and is this book the same book that tells you there was an arsenal in Mazar e Sharif, that made stuff with the mosque stamp? I am trying to provide proper information for the benefit of everyone, because there are heaps of wrong information floating around. If you don't want to accept that because it is not in a book, that is your right.

Many thanks for your opinions. I respect them, but would like to have them supported by a more systematic source.
The Uzbeki book is the only one I have on Central Asian weapons ( except for Moser and a chapter in Elgood's book on Islamic Weapons). We all try to rely on published and peer-reviewed academic literature, don't we?
You might be right, and the what we traditionally call Bukharan style ( or Samarkand, or Chust, or whatever, - they are all discussed and differentiated in the book Song in Metal, published in Uzbekistan, by Uzbeki authors), is actually Tajik, not Uzbek, handiwork and tradition.
There are studies on Caucasian weapons differentiating West Georgian from East Georgian, Lak from Avar, Meghreli from Circassian styles etc, etc. Similarly, Elgood tried to find peculiarities of weapons produced in Boka Kotorska, Foca, Bosnia and others.
I am interested how do you differentiate Tajik from Uzbeki weapons and styles? Just an assertions that there were Tajiks in Uzbekistan is not enough: there were, and still are, Uzbeks living in Dushanbe and other Tajik areas.

In short, you provide a tantalizing piece of information, and we all would like to have it supported by academic evidence.
Best wishes.

[fspic]

These are quick shots of the edged weapons in the pesh kahbz. One is relatively new and in excellent condition but with a rather soft blade. The one with the horn fluted grips is the real thing with a fully hardened dark somewhat pitted blade which is made to penetrate heavy padding or light armor. The long bladed beastie is the choora. I saw one on eBay once but that is about it. I wouldn't mind commissioning one like it.

On the various items temporarily hung on the wall is a very long third knife of this type but much older. It is all metal with a bird's head grip which has koftgari scratches but no inlay or overlay which I am told would have been gold. The original blade, probably broken at the very thin tip, was blended into a nice upsweep. I hope the pics come up OK - oops! Looks like I have to figure out using my new zip file.

[AJ1356]

let me get the name of this book of yours, and as soon as I find a book I'll share it.

[ariel]

T. Abdullayev, D. Fakhretdinova, A. Khakimov

"A Song in Metal. Folk Art of Uzbekistan"
Tashkent, Gafur Gulyam Art and Literature Publishers. 1986

There is no ISBN

You can find it here:
http://www.bookfinder.com/search/?ac...2520uzbekistan