dagger for ID... made from a broken sword ?

David · 31st January 2012, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

The owner wants to preserve the state of the blade. ie no oliling polishing etc..

Hi Willem...while i can appreciate this you might want to relate to the owner that if he does not do something about that active rust more deterioration will take place so he will not in fact be "preserving" the blade.

asomotif · 31st January 2012, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Hi Willem...while i can appreciate this you might want to relate to the owner that if he does not do something about that active rust more deterioration will take place so he will not in fact be "preserving" the blade.

Yes, I will advise him to apply at least some oil or grease.
Other tips for preservation without altering the state will be appreciated.

Ps. I read also something like .. OLIN G N (= solingen?

) , but could it be that easy ? The interspacing between letters seems irregular /odd.

asomotif · 1st February 2012, 10:12 PM

124 views, but no-one who has any info on age/origin/markings ?

Gavin Nugent · 2nd February 2012, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

124 views, but no-one who has any info on age/origin/markings ?

Perhaps a 124 curious learners

David R · 17th February 2012, 06:50 PM

The blade looks of better quality than the hilt, my guess is a cut down rapier or Spanish "Bilboa" which would fit with a Solingen attribution. I would check out the section on South American daggers, or even "espada ancha".

Jim McDougall · 6th December 2012, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

124 views, but no-one who has any info on age/origin/markings ?

I couldnt help but comment on this well placed note. The numbers of lurkers/notetakers/readers is phenomenal compared to those who will participate in these threads. Some threads with responses and posts in the low hundreds have surprassed the tens of thousands mark with views.
This reveals the fact that those of us who do participate here are at least contributing to the collective knowledge on the weapons we study. It also reveals that the majority of readers out there who do not participate are simply 'learning' but lack the confidence to enter comments or observations for fear of ridicule or such nonsense.

As I have emphasized many times, there are no 'experts', simply students in degree with often advanced experience, and we here are all just learning together. It is intended to be quid pro quo and typically, many of us do not know the subject at hand especially well, but research and gather data to be shared with the community here. I am glad to see our archived material being useful, but wish more would participate as it is seldom known what relevant or key information might result from any added notes and observations.

Having said that, I agree with Mark in the probable Spanish colonial assessment , and would note that in the 19th century in the Central American colonies there seems to have been a particular affinity for dirk type sidearms. The flared pommel resembles the espada ancha profile, the blade does seem cut down from one of the Spanish arming swords of mid to latter 18th century. The markings, obviously intended to be Solingen, do seem in disarray in placement, but seem to be well copied from the authentic markings on many Spanish rapier blades which did indeed come from Solingen. I would consider this to plausibly be one of those dirks from Spains colonies in coastal regions rather than inland regions of Mexico.

All the best,
Jim

M ELEY · 7th December 2012, 12:57 PM

I do have a confession to make. When I first posted on this thread, I hadn't paid attention to the size of it. Thus, my comments mention this 'sword' (

). Now that I see that its a true dagger-sized implement, I still believe Span colonial. Even as such, it might have seen naval/maritime use. Love the thickened blade form.

Jim, have you ever come across a piece like this in your extensive research and many travels through the SW? BTW, hope you are doing well.

Jim McDougall · 7th December 2012, 10:47 PM

Hi Mark,
Doing great...bookmobile in dry dock through winter!

at last, last odyssey about 5000 miles.

Actually Ive never seen these kind of weapons in the 'inland' context, though espada anchas tended to become shorter, which is why they are often mistaken for Confederate Bowies etc. They had become more of a large Bowie type weapon by about 1850s and on the Plains they were often termed 'frog stickers' as I was once told.
In Levines 4th Book of Knives I think 1985, one of these Central American 'dirks' is seen but these often had a ring on them. This seems more an ersatz type fabrication of one of these. I think these were more likely in use on the 'Spanish Main' and certainly could well have seen maritime use .

All the best,
Jim

M ELEY · 8th December 2012, 05:00 AM

Glad to hear you are well, Jim!

Concerning your comments, that makes total sense concerning usage in the Spanish Main in conjunction with a Caribbean made espada or make-shift cup-hilt. It reminds me of the rapier/main gauch combo, but in this case, of a more primitive form. The more we discuss this piece, I realize I want one!

1st February 2012, 10:12 PM	#3
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,235	124 views, but no-one who has any info on age/origin/markings ?

17th February 2012, 06:50 PM	#5
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,120	The blade looks of better quality than the hilt, my guess is a cut down rapier or Spanish "Bilboa" which would fit with a Solingen attribution. I would check out the section on South American daggers, or even "espada ancha".

7th December 2012, 12:57 PM	#7
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,156	I do have a confession to make. When I first posted on this thread, I hadn't paid attention to the size of it. Thus, my comments mention this 'sword' ( ). Now that I see that its a true dagger-sized implement, I still believe Span colonial. Even as such, it might have seen naval/maritime use. Love the thickened blade form. Jim, have you ever come across a piece like this in your extensive research and many travels through the SW? BTW, hope you are doing well.

7th December 2012, 10:47 PM	#8
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	Hi Mark, Doing great...bookmobile in dry dock through winter! at last, last odyssey about 5000 miles. Actually Ive never seen these kind of weapons in the 'inland' context, though espada anchas tended to become shorter, which is why they are often mistaken for Confederate Bowies etc. They had become more of a large Bowie type weapon by about 1850s and on the Plains they were often termed 'frog stickers' as I was once told. In Levines 4th Book of Knives I think 1985, one of these Central American 'dirks' is seen but these often had a ring on them. This seems more an ersatz type fabrication of one of these. I think these were more likely in use on the 'Spanish Main' and certainly could well have seen maritime use . All the best, Jim

8th December 2012, 05:00 AM	#9
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,156	Glad to hear you are well, Jim! Concerning your comments, that makes total sense concerning usage in the Spanish Main in conjunction with a Caribbean made espada or make-shift cup-hilt. It reminds me of the rapier/main gauch combo, but in this case, of a more primitive form. The more we discuss this piece, I realize I want one!