Is This a MORO SWORD ???

mykeris · 15th August 2005, 07:55 AM

Just checking with you guys, length of blade Ganja to tip 56 cm Ganja 11cm.
Thick laminated blade, razor sharp. Condition heavily used. Position of Sword: Condong (Slanting). No traces of baca-baca. Could it possible be a Moro or Javanese sword (High gandik: Kebo Lanjer???? )
TQ for your views.

nechesh · 15th August 2005, 04:14 PM

Well, it's certainly not Moro and i don't think it's Javanese either. You might want to look to the Peninsula for this one. Is there a sheath? That might hold some clues.The hilt looks more like the type of kakatu hilts i've seen on peninsula sundangs, but the blade profile seems rather unusual for that type of sword.

Mark · 15th August 2005, 04:21 PM

I think I see the marks of those band-thingies one sees on Moro kris (is asang-asang the term?).

mykeris · 15th August 2005, 05:19 PM

The owner did not make the scabbard. The hilt was made 5 yrs ago ( a lower quality)just simply copying the look of ordinary Sundang hilt. Originally, it was only the blade, the blade left by owner`s long time gone ancestors, being kept sacredly for years and years. Nobody knew about its origin. This sword had been taken to a few Malay keris collectors for verification but every body seemed to confuse themselves. Due to this reason, the owner has granted permission for this sword to be posted to the forum, seeking professional views from international sword enthusiasts. Owner`s ancestors origin: Borneo.

Bill · 15th August 2005, 09:02 PM

blade doesn't really strike me as being very old

Battara · 15th August 2005, 11:13 PM

Doesn't look Moro to me.

Rick · 16th August 2005, 12:19 AM

Flat or round peksi ?
Blade looks kinda old to me . <shrug>
It has quite a pronounced blade angle .
At any rate I like it .

mykeris · 16th August 2005, 02:57 AM

The owner couldnt remember well the nature of the peksi. TQ.

Alam Shah · 16th August 2005, 06:40 PM

I've seen a similar blade in George Cameron Stone's, A Glossary of the Construction, Decoration and Use of Arms And Armor in All Countries And In All Times. Page 392, Figure 487, 4th piece blade.

It is mentioned as an Executioner's Kris. The blade closely resembles your's. However, the hilt and sarung keris is something else.

mykeris · 17th August 2005, 04:37 AM

Alam Shah, Could you kindly take a photo of the page, and post it here. I appreciate if you can do that, something very interesting to learn. I have gone to many keris sites to check on similarities of this sword, couldnt find any. TQ

Alam Shah · 17th August 2005, 05:10 AM

I do not have the reference with me now...will update tonight.

Rick · 17th August 2005, 03:11 PM

The blade seems quite a bit broader than the example in Stones .

If my feet were held to the fire

I'd have to say that IMO this is a sword,keris of Bugis origin , battle sized and never had baca baca .

See this example , first post :
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...2&page=1&pp=30

Alam Shah · 17th August 2005, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alam Shah

I do not have the reference with me now...will update tonight.

As promised...

Alam Shah · 17th August 2005, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

The blade seems quite a bit broader than the example in Stones .

If my feet were held to the fire

I'd have to say that IMO this is a sword,keris of Bugis origin , battle sized and never had baca baca .

I kind of agree with you. With the picture comparison, this piece is broader and shorter. The term "keris kacukan" ("mixed keris" in malay) comes to mind. (Sorry rahman, 'borrowed' your term).

mykeris · 17th August 2005, 03:32 PM

Thanks Alam Shah for the photo, surely useful for further study.

DIYAR · 18th August 2005, 06:17 AM

Hello, IMO this is a special limited edition Combat-Sundang of the
Bugis or Moro origin, 300 yrs old or more. A Moro Datu Paing
or Bugis Chieftain sundang. The ganya tells us more of Bugis bran-
ding, blade profile is even of Bugis or Moro
of unknown evidence. Patches of
harzardous meteorite pamoer evident at lower prt of blade, the rest is Adeg.
Very superior look, great piece.

r

nechesh · 18th August 2005, 12:39 PM

Hi DIYAR, welcome to the forum. Now forgive me if i grill you a little bit.

"harzardous meteorite pamoer" ?!

What ever do you mean by that? How could you possible tell from these photographs if meteoric pamor was used when even scientific tests on the blades metals themselves would not be conclusive on such a question? And if so (BIG "If) what would possibly be "hazardous" about it?
What gives you the impression that this was a Datu of Chieftain's blade? How can you determine this from the blade alone (remember, this is not the original hilt and was only recently added)?
You mention Moro possibilities twice in your post but state nothing to back this up. What do you mean by "Moro of unknown evidence"? Have you ever seen another Moro blade with pamor adeg? Or one with this type of blade profile? What about this blade makes you date it at "300 yrs old or more"? What do you find to be "superior" about the look of this blade?

mykeris · 18th August 2005, 04:30 PM

Wow, looking forward to hear more from Diyar and the others

.

Alam Shah · 18th August 2005, 04:34 PM

Hi Diyar,
Welcome...

Spunjer · 18th August 2005, 05:01 PM

lol...i believe someone just stirred the hornet's nest

Rick · 18th August 2005, 05:18 PM

The Bouncer is watching this little 'discussion' .
Don't get nasty and keep the exchange in English .
You all know how I abhor fights .

DIYAR · 18th August 2005, 07:06 PM

I am with you Rick. I abhor conflicts. I am calling from the mountains
to join this forum and my palm computer handicaps me a lot, not
until I get myself to town when I can write you in length.
I am of Bugis-Sulu origin, older than you people I think and my
ancestors forged
many swords and krises at the time of Bugis-At War-Prosper. BTW
I dont think,I need to answer all your questios at this point unless
you really dont have basics. Please use these to evaluate until finally
you reach your own logics. The air is getting colder over here, have
a nice day. Always observe through your THIRD EYE !
Regards, DENDIYAR

Spunjer · 18th August 2005, 09:11 PM

would love to hear your stories, DIYAR ...

nechesh · 18th August 2005, 11:35 PM

Hi DIYAR. Well i don't know what i missed, but i'm probably the better off for it.

Honestly, there was no hostile intent or call for conflict in my post, it was just 6am in the morning and i was trying to get off some questions quickly before i headed out to work, hoping i'd find some answers when i returned. Sorry if it caused a stir.

BTW, i DO believe that i at least "have the basics", but would still appreciate it if you did address all my questions when you find the time. I think they are all valid.

I, too, would love to hear your stories.

mykeris · 19th August 2005, 06:19 AM

Thank you for all views posted. After reading all views, I have taken a decision that this is a Bugis Sundang, and will advise the owner to make a Bugis scabbard and hilt for it. Thanks again.

kai · 19th August 2005, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mykeris

... and will advise the owner to make a Bugis scabbard and hilt for it.

Hi, Could you please ask the owner for permission to post pics of the finished piece? I'd love to see it and I guess this nice piece won't be accessible to the interested public again anytime soon... Thanks a lot!

BTW, which part(s) of Borneo do the owner's ancestors come from and what are their ethnic roots? (That's a vast and diverse area and any details might be of academic interest as far as this sword is concerned!)

Regards,
Kai

mykeris · 20th August 2005, 04:41 AM

Kai, I will inform the owner too.

15th August 2005, 07:55 AM	#1
mykeris Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 278	Is This a MORO SWORD ??? Just checking with you guys, length of blade Ganja to tip 56 cm Ganja 11cm. Thick laminated blade, razor sharp. Condition heavily used. Position of Sword: Condong (Slanting). No traces of baca-baca. Could it possible be a Moro or Javanese sword (High gandik: Kebo Lanjer???? ) TQ for your views. Attached Images Last edited by mykeris; 15th August 2005 at 10:07 AM.

17th August 2005, 05:10 AM	#11
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	reference material... I do not have the reference with me now...will update tonight. Last edited by Alam Shah; 17th August 2005 at 03:24 PM. Reason: upd...

18th August 2005, 06:17 AM	#16
DIYAR Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 2	Hello, IMO this is a special limited edition Combat-Sundang of the Bugis or Moro origin, 300 yrs old or more. A Moro Datu Paing or Bugis Chieftain sundang. The ganya tells us more of Bugis bran- ding, blade profile is even of Bugis or Moro of unknown evidence. Patches of harzardous meteorite pamoer evident at lower prt of blade, the rest is Adeg. Very superior look, great piece. r Last edited by DIYAR; 18th August 2005 at 06:52 AM.

18th August 2005, 04:34 PM	#19
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	Hi Diyar, Welcome... Last edited by Alam Shah; 18th August 2005 at 06:02 PM. Reason: more polite...

18th August 2005, 05:18 PM	#21
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Hornets' Nest The Bouncer is watching this little 'discussion' . Don't get nasty and keep the exchange in English . You all know how I abhor fights .

15th August 2005, 04:14 PM	#2
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Well, it's certainly not Moro and i don't think it's Javanese either. You might want to look to the Peninsula for this one. Is there a sheath? That might hold some clues.The hilt looks more like the type of kakatu hilts i've seen on peninsula sundangs, but the blade profile seems rather unusual for that type of sword.

15th August 2005, 04:21 PM	#3
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	I think I see the marks of those band-thingies one sees on Moro kris (is asang-asang the term?).

15th August 2005, 05:19 PM	#4
mykeris Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 278	The owner did not make the scabbard. The hilt was made 5 yrs ago ( a lower quality)just simply copying the look of ordinary Sundang hilt. Originally, it was only the blade, the blade left by owner`s long time gone ancestors, being kept sacredly for years and years. Nobody knew about its origin. This sword had been taken to a few Malay keris collectors for verification but every body seemed to confuse themselves. Due to this reason, the owner has granted permission for this sword to be posted to the forum, seeking professional views from international sword enthusiasts. Owner`s ancestors origin: Borneo.

15th August 2005, 09:02 PM	#5
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	blade doesn't really strike me as being very old

15th August 2005, 11:13 PM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,226	Doesn't look Moro to me.

16th August 2005, 12:19 AM	#7
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Flat or round peksi ? Blade looks kinda old to me . <shrug> It has quite a pronounced blade angle . At any rate I like it .

16th August 2005, 02:57 AM	#8
mykeris Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 278	The owner couldnt remember well the nature of the peksi. TQ.

16th August 2005, 06:40 PM	#9
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	I've seen a similar blade in George Cameron Stone's, A Glossary of the Construction, Decoration and Use of Arms And Armor in All Countries And In All Times. Page 392, Figure 487, 4th piece blade. It is mentioned as an Executioner's Kris. The blade closely resembles your's. However, the hilt and sarung keris is something else.

17th August 2005, 04:37 AM	#10
mykeris Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 278	Alam Shah, Could you kindly take a photo of the page, and post it here. I appreciate if you can do that, something very interesting to learn. I have gone to many keris sites to check on similarities of this sword, couldnt find any. TQ

17th August 2005, 03:11 PM	#12
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	The blade seems quite a bit broader than the example in Stones . If my feet were held to the fire I'd have to say that IMO this is a sword,keris of Bugis origin , battle sized and never had baca baca . See this example , first post : http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...2&page=1&pp=30

17th August 2005, 03:32 PM	#15
mykeris Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 278	Thanks Alam Shah for the photo, surely useful for further study.

18th August 2005, 12:39 PM	#17
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Hi DIYAR, welcome to the forum. Now forgive me if i grill you a little bit. "harzardous meteorite pamoer" ?! What ever do you mean by that? How could you possible tell from these photographs if meteoric pamor was used when even scientific tests on the blades metals themselves would not be conclusive on such a question? And if so (BIG "If) what would possibly be "hazardous" about it? What gives you the impression that this was a Datu of Chieftain's blade? How can you determine this from the blade alone (remember, this is not the original hilt and was only recently added)? You mention Moro possibilities twice in your post but state nothing to back this up. What do you mean by "Moro of unknown evidence"? Have you ever seen another Moro blade with pamor adeg? Or one with this type of blade profile? What about this blade makes you date it at "300 yrs old or more"? What do you find to be "superior" about the look of this blade?

18th August 2005, 04:30 PM	#18
mykeris Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 278	Wow, looking forward to hear more from Diyar and the others .

18th August 2005, 05:01 PM	#20
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	lol...i believe someone just stirred the hornet's nest

18th August 2005, 07:06 PM	#22
DIYAR Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 2	I am with you Rick. I abhor conflicts. I am calling from the mountains to join this forum and my palm computer handicaps me a lot, not until I get myself to town when I can write you in length. I am of Bugis-Sulu origin, older than you people I think and my ancestors forged many swords and krises at the time of Bugis-At War-Prosper. BTW I dont think,I need to answer all your questios at this point unless you really dont have basics. Please use these to evaluate until finally you reach your own logics. The air is getting colder over here, have a nice day. Always observe through your THIRD EYE ! Regards, DENDIYAR

18th August 2005, 09:11 PM	#23
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	would love to hear your stories, DIYAR ...

18th August 2005, 11:35 PM	#24
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Hi DIYAR. Well i don't know what i missed, but i'm probably the better off for it. Honestly, there was no hostile intent or call for conflict in my post, it was just 6am in the morning and i was trying to get off some questions quickly before i headed out to work, hoping i'd find some answers when i returned. Sorry if it caused a stir. BTW, i DO believe that i at least "have the basics", but would still appreciate it if you did address all my questions when you find the time. I think they are all valid. I, too, would love to hear your stories.

19th August 2005, 06:19 AM	#25
mykeris Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 278	Thank you for all views posted. After reading all views, I have taken a decision that this is a Bugis Sundang, and will advise the owner to make a Bugis scabbard and hilt for it. Thanks again.

20th August 2005, 04:41 AM	#27
mykeris Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 278	Kai, I will inform the owner too.