Middle Eastern Mystery Dagger #2 - Bird Head

Devadatta · 20th January 2012, 04:41 AM

These are mine

NovelsRus · 24th January 2012, 08:15 AM

Very cool daggers, Deva. In great shape, too. Now I've got to have another like your dark one. Can't have enough Jezzine Khanjars, can we?

Thanks for the post!

twdroppoint2 · 27th September 2013, 08:04 PM

Thread bump ... and first post

I thought I would add to an already existing thread, rather than start my own

I owned one of these knives (a fork and knife set, not a dagger) as well at one point ... I got mine from an individual who had served in Iran/Persia before the Revolution, and even knew the Shah. So I assumed it was a Persian trousse type of set.

Members from a knife forum I'm part of helped me with the Jezzine id however. My question is ... when did the bird motif first begin in that area ? Or in other words, at what point did they first start focussing on it iconically ? I'd like to know because I'm curious which came first ... the chicken or the egg so to speak. Did the design of the bird originate with them, or did they borrow it ? I've seen similar designed handles on so called "Bosnian" made knives, so I'm assuming a country like that copied the style as well, for example.

Thanks for any help

VANDOO · 30th September 2013, 06:22 AM

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=lebanon

HERE IS A LINK TO A OLD POST ON THE SCARCE FISH DAGGER FROM THE SAME AREA. I THINK THERE IS AT LEAST TWO MORE POSTS ON KNIVES FROM THIS AREA IN THE ARCHIVES ONE LINKED IN THE ABOVE LINK BUT UNFORTUNATELY THE PICTURES ARE MISSING.

NovelsRus · 12th October 2013, 07:01 PM

Hi, all,

Recently asked about a rather dodgy khanjar on ebay, re the actual blade steel (since I couldn't see anything like a Wootz or Damascus pattern). The blade appeared to have been burnished or worn smooth, and looked to me like plain, old steel.

Seller said, "If you don't acid etch the blade the pattern will never appear on any damascus."

First thought? Rubbish! Damascus should show through regardless of "acid etching." Methinks this chap is the one doing the "acid" etching, and is plainly tripping out.

Wot say ye, all? Is the seller full of codswallop, or is there any legitimacy to his hallucinogenic, acid-induced ravings?

Rick · 12th October 2013, 07:32 PM

Well, I see a cold shut in your second photo ....

RSWORD · 12th October 2013, 10:07 PM

Actually, that statement is not rubbish. I have owned many a blade that the pattern was obscured from patina, rust, or even had been polished bright and after a polish and etch the pattern appeared. A good way to illustrate this is to loo at a wootz blade with an ill fitting scabbard. The scabbard will wear on the blade enough to obscure the pattern. If you polish this area and then etch it the pattern will return. Just don't store it back in the scabbard!

27th September 2013, 08:04 PM	#3
twdroppoint2 Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 10	Thread bump ... and first post I thought I would add to an already existing thread, rather than start my own I owned one of these knives (a fork and knife set, not a dagger) as well at one point ... I got mine from an individual who had served in Iran/Persia before the Revolution, and even knew the Shah. So I assumed it was a Persian trousse type of set. Members from a knife forum I'm part of helped me with the Jezzine id however. My question is ... when did the bird motif first begin in that area ? Or in other words, at what point did they first start focussing on it iconically ? I'd like to know because I'm curious which came first ... the chicken or the egg so to speak. Did the design of the bird originate with them, or did they borrow it ? I've seen similar designed handles on so called "Bosnian" made knives, so I'm assuming a country like that copied the style as well, for example. Thanks for any help Attached Images Last edited by twdroppoint2; 27th September 2013 at 09:50 PM.

12th October 2013, 07:01 PM	#5
NovelsRus Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 41	Damascus pattern and acid etching/ Hi, all, Recently asked about a rather dodgy khanjar on ebay, re the actual blade steel (since I couldn't see anything like a Wootz or Damascus pattern). The blade appeared to have been burnished or worn smooth, and looked to me like plain, old steel. Seller said, "If you don't acid etch the blade the pattern will never appear on any damascus." First thought? Rubbish! Damascus should show through regardless of "acid etching." Methinks this chap is the one doing the "acid" etching, and is plainly tripping out. Wot say ye, all? Is the seller full of codswallop, or is there any legitimacy to his hallucinogenic, acid-induced ravings? Last edited by Rick; 13th October 2013 at 03:09 AM. Reason: active auction

20th January 2012, 04:41 AM	#1
Devadatta Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 118	These are mine

24th January 2012, 08:15 AM	#2
NovelsRus Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 41	Nice! Very cool daggers, Deva. In great shape, too. Now I've got to have another like your dark one. Can't have enough Jezzine Khanjars, can we? Thanks for the post!

30th September 2013, 06:22 AM	#4
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=lebanon HERE IS A LINK TO A OLD POST ON THE SCARCE FISH DAGGER FROM THE SAME AREA. I THINK THERE IS AT LEAST TWO MORE POSTS ON KNIVES FROM THIS AREA IN THE ARCHIVES ONE LINKED IN THE ABOVE LINK BUT UNFORTUNATELY THE PICTURES ARE MISSING.

12th October 2013, 07:32 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Well, I see a cold shut in your second photo ....

12th October 2013, 10:07 PM	#7
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,087	Actually, that statement is not rubbish. I have owned many a blade that the pattern was obscured from patina, rust, or even had been polished bright and after a polish and etch the pattern appeared. A good way to illustrate this is to loo at a wootz blade with an ill fitting scabbard. The scabbard will wear on the blade enough to obscure the pattern. If you polish this area and then etch it the pattern will return. Just don't store it back in the scabbard!