Abyssinian ? sword

[thinreadline]

I have had this sword in my collection for around 30 years and always thought of it as Abyssinian . I would value any comments from members .

[Iain]

Moroccan s'boula. See here.

Nice example, I always liked the type. More typically they seem to have blades with small double or triple fullers.

[ariel]

Jiboula, or s'boola.
See here:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=jiboula

Long discussion about Ethiopia, Morocco, Falash Mura etc.

[Iain]

Originally Posted by ariel

Jiboula, or s'boola.
See here:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=jiboula

Long discussion about Ethiopia, Morocco, Falash Mura etc.

Looks like we posted at the same time. You posted a better link as well.

[thinreadline]

Originally Posted by Iain

Moroccan s'boula. See here.

Nice example, I always liked the type. More typically they seem to have blades with small double or triple fullers.

Thanks Iain .. oh well 30 years of delusion ! This means yet another rearrangement of my walls .. wish I had known about this forum years ago !

[thinreadline]

Originally Posted by ariel

Jiboula, or s'boola.
See here:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=jiboula

Long discussion about Ethiopia, Morocco, Falash Mura etc.

Thanks for that ... very interesting link
Cheers

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by thinreadline

Thanks Iain .. oh well 30 years of delusion ! This means yet another rearrangement of my walls .. wish I had known about this forum years ago !

I wish you had too Richmond!!! You've been a valuable addition here and your posting of so many intriguing weapons has been beneficial to us with the prompting to revisiting previous discussions on them as here.

As seen in the linked discussion from 2008, these actually were generally held by collectors to have been from Zanzibar as referenced in Demmin (1877) then by Burton (1884) as these were seen by Burton in his visits there in 1857. I am unsure whether Demmin copied the attribution from Burton whose work on Zanzibar was not published until 1872, or if it was the other way around. Burtons references and line drawings in any case are identical to Demmins, but I have handled Burton's original manuscripts in pencil, which I believe included these sketches.
Whatever the case, the attribution was simply presumed as these weapons were visually seen in Zanzibar by him, and probably copied by Demmin in compiling his work.
In the book on Charles Buttin's collections published posthumously in Rummilly , France in 1933, the misattribution is noted, and the correct identification as the Moroccan s'boula is established. This is emphasized by the fact that Charles Buttin and his sons had varying residence in Morocco over many years and very well knew their weapons. It should be noted that many of these are in scabbards with baldric type carry rings, which are similar in configuration to koummya.

Richmond, the Abyssinian presumption is actually somewhat established by the diffusion of these weapons via trade entrepot in trans Saharan routes into those regions as well as Zanzibar. In a relatively obscure booklet titled 'The Weapons of Africa' by Lindert (cannot recall exact date) one of these is shown, and there are extant examples known with Amharic insciption on blade.

By original provenance however, the type appears to be Moroccan.

All the best,
Jim

[thinreadline]

Well thanks for that interesting contribution Jim. This now puts me in a quandary as I have never collected the weapons of Morocco ... so this has been a cuckoo in the nest all these years !

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

I wish you had too Richmond!!! You've been a valuable addition here and your posting of so many intriguing weapons has been beneficial to us with the prompting to revisiting previous discussions on them as here.

As seen in the linked discussion from 2008, these actually were generally held by collectors to have been from Zanzibar as referenced in Demmin (1877) then by Burton (1884) as these were seen by Burton in his visits there in 1857. I am unsure whether Demmin copied the attribution from Burton whose work on Zanzibar was not published until 1872, or if it was the other way around. Burtons references and line drawings in any case are identical to Demmins, but I have handled Burton's original manuscripts in pencil, which I believe included these sketches.
Whatever the case, the attribution was simply presumed as these weapons were visually seen in Zanzibar by him, and probably copied by Demmin in compiling his work.
In the book on Charles Buttin's collections published posthumously in Rummilly , France in 1933, the misattribution is noted, and the correct identification as the Moroccan s'boula is established. This is emphasized by the fact that Charles Buttin and his sons had varying residence in Morocco over many years and very well knew their weapons. It should be noted that many of these are in scabbards with baldric type carry rings, which are similar in configuration to koummya.

Richmond, the Abyssinian presumption is actually somewhat established by the diffusion of these weapons via trade entrepot in trans Saharan routes into those regions as well as Zanzibar. In a relatively obscure booklet titled 'The Weapons of Africa' by Lindert (cannot recall exact date) one of these is shown, and there are extant examples known with Amharic insciption on blade.

By original provenance however, the type appears to be Moroccan.

All the best,
Jim

[Jim McDougall]

LOL! Actually you did, just didnt know it yet It seems you are widely diverse in the scope of your collecting, and to me most ethnographic collectors brach into many fields. Many have favorite or specialist areas, but as shown, through trade and diffusion of forms, finding variants and tracking the history of them is pure adventure, and few of us can resist sallying forth into those!

All the best,
Jim

[thinreadline]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

LOL! Actually you did, just didnt know it yet It seems you are widely diverse in the scope of your collecting, and to me most ethnographic collectors brach into many fields. Many have favorite or specialist areas, but as shown, through trade and diffusion of forms, finding variants and tracking the history of them is pure adventure, and few of us can resist sallying forth into those!

All the best,
Jim

Very amusing ! You absolutely right Jim , but I always tried to be quite strict ..anything I bought by chance that didnt fit the collection went on to the heap in the loft . The idea was to sell them to finance the collecting habit , but in fact they lay there for many decades . Now I am having fun spending time ( which nowadays I have a little more of ) cleaning and researching them , selling the occasional bit . This forum has been a huge help , education and stimulus to my hobby , so cheers to all of you ! .