Wilah nr 4 for identification

[Sajen]

Alan,

could be this keris by a blade length (without pesi) from 22,5 cm a genuine patrem keris?

Regards,

Detlef

[Marcokeris]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Alan,

could be this keris by a blade lenght (without pesi) from 22,5 cm as genuine patrem keris?

Regards,

Detlef

Nice! IMO the blade could comes from another more long. I see the blade good for magic, not for woman (...but often magic and women come together )

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Marcokeris

Nice! IMO the blade could comes from another more long. I see the blade good for magic, not for woman (...but often magic and women come together )

Hello Marco,

have had the same thought that it is maybe a reshaped keris which was longer before.
The sheath is with real kendit.

Regards,

Detlef

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Marcokeris

(...but often magic and women come together )

As long as is not black magic........

[sirek]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Alan,

could be this keris by a blade lenght (without pesi) from 22,5 cm as genuine patrem keris?

Regards,

Detlef

Found this schedule once on the net. (can not confirm if this is true )
LAME= BLADE
1 CM = 0.39 inch

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by sirek

Found this schedule once on the net. (can not confirm if this is true )
LAME= BLADE
1 CM = 0.39 inch

Hello Sirek,

thank you for posting this shedule, think it can be taken as approximate value.

Regards,

Detlef

[A. G. Maisey]

Penangsang--- no, not necessarily Kraton mpu made. Just because a woman might be attached to a Kraton this does not make of her somebody of sufficient wealth or rank to be able to use the services of an mpu who is a part of the Kraton hierarchy.

Many abdi dalem are really quite poor people, and even a lot of genuine blood aristocrats are not wealthy, and struggle to make ends meet.

Detlef --- I think this blade has been reshaped, I would not consider this a patrem.

I'm a little surprised that nobody knew the purpose of the patrem, I thought it was something that was general knowledge. To understand the need for a woman to follow her husband or master in death one needs to understand the mindset that applied in pre-Islamic Jawa, and which was continued in Bali until the early 20th century. This mindset was continued to a degree in Javanese kraton society, even after the dominance of Islam, and was one of the reasons for the the discord between Mataram and the clergy which resulted in the massacres of the 17th century. Even today kraton society in Central Jawa reflects a Hindu-Buddhist essence in many respects.

Some insight into the way in which women saw the following of husband or lord into the next world can be gained from "Bali's Early Days", A.A.GDE Putra Agung, ISBN 978-979-1173-13-1

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Detlef --- I think this blade has been reshaped, I would not consider this a patrem.

Thank you Alan, you confirm what I have thought already.

Regards,

Detlef

[Harley]

This is the sheath a couple of days ago, when i saw the picture i found the edge on top and the curl to thick, so i am gonna change that.
I was not easy to do it in one piece, but it was worth the afford.
The hilt i made a couple of weeks back, not very good job, but i have to find a better frais? for the dremel.
Is this a sort of hilt that would be used on this keris, if not, what kind will?

regards,
Ben

[A. G. Maisey]

Here are a couple of examples for you Harley.

The scabbard is a good quality, classical, Surakarta sandang walikat.

The two hilts are typical classic sandang walikat, however, these days a great many collectors use the sandang walikat scabbard form as a vehicle to display a finely carved hilt