New Tajong with copper beak

David · 24th December 2011, 01:05 AM

Nevermind, seems you posted more pics while i was writing...

ariel · 24th December 2011, 12:34 PM

Glad that's enough for you to render your opinion on the quality and age, as I asked.
The biggest problem is that the varnish is so thick that the crispness of carving is obscured by it. You can see on some pics that there were at least 2 and possibly more layers. I cannot even see the material of the handle. Since there are some cracks at the back of it, I assume it is wood. But what kind, I do not know.

David · 24th December 2011, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Glad that's enough for you to render your opinion on the quality and age, as I asked.

Well Ariel, since i rendered an opinion on neither i find it hard not to read this statement as sarcasm and can only advise that you reel that in...

ariel · 24th December 2011, 06:11 PM

No sarcasm was intended. I just reiterated the scope of my inquiries after you said the pics were OK.

David · 24th December 2011, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

No sarcasm was intended. I just reiterated the scope of my inquiries after you said the pics were OK.

Fair enough...

A. G. Maisey · 24th December 2011, 11:40 PM

Detlef's recommendation to use a traditional wood glue is the recommendation you could probably expect from most European based collectors. In fact, the real dyed in the wool people would recommend that you used a fish based glue, even if you needed to make it yourself. This is perhaps a legitimate approach for people who wish to keep things exactly as they were. It is not the approach that is currently used in Jawa, not is it the most practical nor logical approach.

However, when using any type of wood glue you need to ensure firstly that you achieve a very neat press fit between the surfaces to be glued together, then you need to ensure that absolutely no glue gets inside the scabbard where it might come into contact with the blade, because wood glues will generate rust if in contact with ferric materials.

In Jawa, the traditional adhesive for a wrongko is button shellac. This is good for use with a scabbard that has a pendok --- the metal over-sheath --- and for scabbards that do not use a pendok, instant glues and two part epoxy resins have been used by the professionals in the field since these became available.

S**T and DISASTER!!!!

Super Glue and Araldite!!!

The whole culture has been corrupted by the modern world!!

The thing is this:- Araldite does a far, far better job than any traditional glue, and it does not generate rust if it comes into contact with the blade. Because of this, the professional scabbard makers in Central Jawa have used these modern adhesives since they came onto the market, which in the case of Araldite, is probably around 40 years ago.

In any case, whether you choose to boil down a few kilos of fish to make fish glue, or whether you choose to use a two part epoxy resin, the important thing is to get close contact of the mating surfaces. Clean thoroughly, score, if necessary use one or more paper thin slivers of wood to achieve a close fit --- bamboo is good for this, brush the blade with silicon car polish as a release agent, prepare a neatly fitting wedge to bring the mating surfaces into contact when you glue, use the car polish on the wedge also. Apply very thin coat of adhesive to each mating surface, put the two parts of the scabbard together, insert the blade, align for good fit of blade to scabbard, hold the two scabbard parts together, withdraw the blade, insert the wedge. Allow the adhesive to go firm but not set, and clean off excess from outside scabbard, when the adhesive has set but not cured, clean up the excess from inside the scabbard, a quarter inch chisel is good for this. Brush the blade clean with mineral turpentine after the adhesive has set.

After the adhesive has cured a light hand rub of the scabbard with a wood oil, or baby oil, will help to loosen up surface dirt, which can then be wiped off with a soft cloth, and you can assess what additional work can safely be carried out.

Rick · 24th December 2011, 11:54 PM

Fish Glue is available commercially in the US, Alan .
Perfect advice on the treatment of a freshly glued surface .

24th December 2011, 11:54 PM	#7
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	For The Traditionalists Fish Glue is available commercially in the US, Alan . Perfect advice on the treatment of a freshly glued surface .

24th December 2011, 01:05 AM	#1
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	Nevermind, seems you posted more pics while i was writing...

24th December 2011, 12:34 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Glad that's enough for you to render your opinion on the quality and age, as I asked. The biggest problem is that the varnish is so thick that the crispness of carving is obscured by it. You can see on some pics that there were at least 2 and possibly more layers. I cannot even see the material of the handle. Since there are some cracks at the back of it, I assume it is wood. But what kind, I do not know.

24th December 2011, 06:11 PM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	No sarcasm was intended. I just reiterated the scope of my inquiries after you said the pics were OK.

24th December 2011, 11:40 PM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Detlef's recommendation to use a traditional wood glue is the recommendation you could probably expect from most European based collectors. In fact, the real dyed in the wool people would recommend that you used a fish based glue, even if you needed to make it yourself. This is perhaps a legitimate approach for people who wish to keep things exactly as they were. It is not the approach that is currently used in Jawa, not is it the most practical nor logical approach. However, when using any type of wood glue you need to ensure firstly that you achieve a very neat press fit between the surfaces to be glued together, then you need to ensure that absolutely no glue gets inside the scabbard where it might come into contact with the blade, because wood glues will generate rust if in contact with ferric materials. In Jawa, the traditional adhesive for a wrongko is button shellac. This is good for use with a scabbard that has a pendok --- the metal over-sheath --- and for scabbards that do not use a pendok, instant glues and two part epoxy resins have been used by the professionals in the field since these became available. S**T and DISASTER!!!! Super Glue and Araldite!!! The whole culture has been corrupted by the modern world!! The thing is this:- Araldite does a far, far better job than any traditional glue, and it does not generate rust if it comes into contact with the blade. Because of this, the professional scabbard makers in Central Jawa have used these modern adhesives since they came onto the market, which in the case of Araldite, is probably around 40 years ago. In any case, whether you choose to boil down a few kilos of fish to make fish glue, or whether you choose to use a two part epoxy resin, the important thing is to get close contact of the mating surfaces. Clean thoroughly, score, if necessary use one or more paper thin slivers of wood to achieve a close fit --- bamboo is good for this, brush the blade with silicon car polish as a release agent, prepare a neatly fitting wedge to bring the mating surfaces into contact when you glue, use the car polish on the wedge also. Apply very thin coat of adhesive to each mating surface, put the two parts of the scabbard together, insert the blade, align for good fit of blade to scabbard, hold the two scabbard parts together, withdraw the blade, insert the wedge. Allow the adhesive to go firm but not set, and clean off excess from outside scabbard, when the adhesive has set but not cured, clean up the excess from inside the scabbard, a quarter inch chisel is good for this. Brush the blade clean with mineral turpentine after the adhesive has set. After the adhesive has cured a light hand rub of the scabbard with a wood oil, or baby oil, will help to loosen up surface dirt, which can then be wiped off with a soft cloth, and you can assess what additional work can safely be carried out.