15 luk Bali?

Sajen · 22nd December 2011, 06:48 PM

Hello Ivoke,

very nice and good worked blade and good hilt. To my eyes it seems to be a keris with some age. Difficult to say if it is from Bali or Lombok.

Regards,

Detlef

ivoke · 22nd December 2011, 07:06 PM

thanks for your comments, and my son will know wich books to hunt down for the old man's birthday.

A. G. Maisey · 22nd December 2011, 08:12 PM

I incline towards Lombok as point of origin for the keris, principally because of the extremely well defined ada-ada.

A very scarce, but informative publication on Balinese keris is:-

"Keris Koleksi Museum Negeri Propinsi Bali"

A Government publication from 1992.

It is written in Bahasa Indonesia.

ivoke · 22nd December 2011, 08:34 PM

Thank you very much for your reply,

What should i look for to determin if the blade is old or not?

Jean · 22nd December 2011, 08:38 PM

Of course the blade could originate from Lombok also, I personally inclined for Bali because of its very fine polishing.
Regards

A. G. Maisey · 22nd December 2011, 09:22 PM

It is finely polished, Jean, but I feel it is not a particularly old blade. My opinion is purely based on a minor aspect of stylistic execution, and I must emphasise:- it is only opinion.

It is true that Lombok blades very often have a textured finish, however, a Bali-style blade that originates from Lombok could have either type of finish, and very often, recently cleaned and stained blades originating from Bali have the same type of finish, because the blade gets sent to Jawa to be cleaned and stained.

I feel that the whole subject of whether a Bali-style blade originates from Bali or Lombok becomes quite confused, and especially with older blades it is very probably a specious distinction, as when Lombok was colonised by Bali, that part of Lombok which was governed by Bali was very probably regarded as Balinese by the Balinese.

Peoples of the Archipelago tend not to view water as a barrier, but rather as an open roadway, so the Euro-centric idea of islands being separated one from the other was not an automatic assumption in the minds of the peoples of the Archipelago.

I feel that an adequate designation for this keris would be:- "Balinese keris, possibly originating from Lombok"

Jean · 23rd December 2011, 09:11 AM

Thank you Alan, and I fully agree with what you say.
Regarding the polishing of the Balinese blades, I would like to share a recent experience: the huge Balinese blade shown on the picture (50 cm long excluding the peksi) was sent to Bali for cleaning and staining as it also needed a new sheath. The result was quite disappointing and I think that the surface would have been smoother and the pamor contrast more apparent if the work had been performed in Solo according to my previous experiences. Note that the dapur of this blade is quite similar to the one belonging to Ivoke, but with 15 luks (dapur Carita Buntala or Buntala).
Regards

23rd December 2011, 09:11 AM	#7
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Thank you Alan, and I fully agree with what you say. Regarding the polishing of the Balinese blades, I would like to share a recent experience: the huge Balinese blade shown on the picture (50 cm long excluding the peksi) was sent to Bali for cleaning and staining as it also needed a new sheath. The result was quite disappointing and I think that the surface would have been smoother and the pamor contrast more apparent if the work had been performed in Solo according to my previous experiences. Note that the dapur of this blade is quite similar to the one belonging to Ivoke, but with 15 luks (dapur Carita Buntala or Buntala). Regards Attached Images

22nd December 2011, 06:48 PM	#1
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,214	Hello Ivoke, very nice and good worked blade and good hilt. To my eyes it seems to be a keris with some age. Difficult to say if it is from Bali or Lombok. Regards, Detlef

22nd December 2011, 07:06 PM	#2
ivoke Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 20	thanks for your comments, and my son will know wich books to hunt down for the old man's birthday.

22nd December 2011, 08:12 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,019	I incline towards Lombok as point of origin for the keris, principally because of the extremely well defined ada-ada. A very scarce, but informative publication on Balinese keris is:- "Keris Koleksi Museum Negeri Propinsi Bali" A Government publication from 1992. It is written in Bahasa Indonesia.

22nd December 2011, 08:34 PM	#4
ivoke Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 20	Thank you very much for your reply, What should i look for to determin if the blade is old or not?

22nd December 2011, 08:38 PM	#5
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Of course the blade could originate from Lombok also, I personally inclined for Bali because of its very fine polishing. Regards

22nd December 2011, 09:22 PM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,019	It is finely polished, Jean, but I feel it is not a particularly old blade. My opinion is purely based on a minor aspect of stylistic execution, and I must emphasise:- it is only opinion. It is true that Lombok blades very often have a textured finish, however, a Bali-style blade that originates from Lombok could have either type of finish, and very often, recently cleaned and stained blades originating from Bali have the same type of finish, because the blade gets sent to Jawa to be cleaned and stained. I feel that the whole subject of whether a Bali-style blade originates from Bali or Lombok becomes quite confused, and especially with older blades it is very probably a specious distinction, as when Lombok was colonised by Bali, that part of Lombok which was governed by Bali was very probably regarded as Balinese by the Balinese. Peoples of the Archipelago tend not to view water as a barrier, but rather as an open roadway, so the Euro-centric idea of islands being separated one from the other was not an automatic assumption in the minds of the peoples of the Archipelago. I feel that an adequate designation for this keris would be:- "Balinese keris, possibly originating from Lombok"