Whistlinbill's Collection #1: Kris

Rick · 19th December 2011, 11:01 PM

Is there a typology present as regards this style of kakatua pommel ?
Can we assign this form as seen to a particular group ?

Battara · 20th December 2011, 01:18 AM

I am looking at the blade not the hilt. The hilt I have even seen on Sulu pieces. ON the blade I am looking at primarily the front of the ganga area. You can check Cato for some of these, and I make the distinction between Maranao and Maguindanao.

There are other things on hilts that can help, especially the okir/okkil work done that can distinguish tribal areas.

Spunjer · 20th December 2011, 01:51 AM

Yo Rick, i see what you're saying... Here the thing tho; i gave up classifying krises to a certain tribe. I'm not saying totally, since there are distnct styles indigenous to a certain tribe, especially later. For instance, the last kris on the right is distinctly sulu. But see now, we're running into whether it's Sama or Tausug. If it's Sama, then which one? Then we see all these blades that contradict what's on Cato's book. So to classify that we say, it's traded
. Really? How 'bout the possibility that a certain panday moving to a certain locale?
Here's another situation: a certain Iranun approached a maranao panday to make him a kris. Question is, would the panday forge the blade based on how he was taught, or would he conform according to a supposedly a iranun style? Just something to chew on...
With that said, the pommel style you're inquiring about, Rick, if we still have to go by Cato's book, can also be seen in Sulu.
My .02 centavos

Rick · 20th December 2011, 02:43 AM

Thanks for the input, Ron .
I see your point .

Battara · 20th December 2011, 02:58 AM

Lots of trade - a good point. Thats why we see a mix of styles on some pieces and it gets confusing. Something Cato does not mention. I have a little more faith in some classification than Ron, but what he says is also true.

Lee · 23rd December 2011, 10:20 AM

A most interesting discussion, thank you all. Here is the next installment:

Spunjer · 23rd December 2011, 12:31 PM

ooh, whistlin', you need to take off that red rust on the first kris. that's painful to look at...

Rick · 16th January 2012, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee

A most interesting discussion, thank you all. Here is the next installment:

M6 is a very interesting sword; most likely pretty early .
Sulu, I should think .

Here is its brother with a different pommel .

http://www.arscives.com/historysteel...1/160-rb3a.jpg

23rd December 2011, 10:20 AM	#6
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 937	A most interesting discussion, thank you all. Here is the next installment: Attached Images

19th December 2011, 11:01 PM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Is there a typology present as regards this style of kakatua pommel ? Can we assign this form as seen to a particular group ?

20th December 2011, 01:18 AM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	I am looking at the blade not the hilt. The hilt I have even seen on Sulu pieces. ON the blade I am looking at primarily the front of the ganga area. You can check Cato for some of these, and I make the distinction between Maranao and Maguindanao. There are other things on hilts that can help, especially the okir/okkil work done that can distinguish tribal areas.

20th December 2011, 01:51 AM	#3
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	Yo Rick, i see what you're saying... Here the thing tho; i gave up classifying krises to a certain tribe. I'm not saying totally, since there are distnct styles indigenous to a certain tribe, especially later. For instance, the last kris on the right is distinctly sulu. But see now, we're running into whether it's Sama or Tausug. If it's Sama, then which one? Then we see all these blades that contradict what's on Cato's book. So to classify that we say, it's traded . Really? How 'bout the possibility that a certain panday moving to a certain locale? Here's another situation: a certain Iranun approached a maranao panday to make him a kris. Question is, would the panday forge the blade based on how he was taught, or would he conform according to a supposedly a iranun style? Just something to chew on... With that said, the pommel style you're inquiring about, Rick, if we still have to go by Cato's book, can also be seen in Sulu. My .02 centavos

20th December 2011, 02:43 AM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Thanks for the input, Ron . I see your point .

20th December 2011, 02:58 AM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	Lots of trade - a good point. Thats why we see a mix of styles on some pieces and it gets confusing. Something Cato does not mention. I have a little more faith in some classification than Ron, but what he says is also true.

23rd December 2011, 12:31 PM	#7
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	ooh, whistlin', you need to take off that red rust on the first kris. that's painful to look at...