Mystery Weapons from Bulgaria

TVV · 8th August 2005, 02:28 PM

Reviving this old thread, here are two qamas I recently acquired in Bulgaria. The small one to my knowledge dates back to the early 20th century, maybe even the end of the 19th century. It is of a type known as a "bachelor's qama", as it was worn by unmarried young men after they became 16. This was of course only possible after 1878, for bfore this date Christians were not allowed to carry weapons that openly.
The big one is a replica, and I am posting it here only to confirm if I am right in assuming it is of a typical Turkish type, based on blade shape and scabbard decoration. It is a well made replica I bought for a little less than $50, and perhaps something to watch out for on eBay in the near future, as with the current prices for qamas and kindjals one can only wonder how long it will take for copies such as this one to turn up there, offered as authentic, of course.

Jim McDougall · 8th August 2005, 05:54 PM

Although I have nothing to add to this thread at the moment, I just wanted to say that in reviewing this thread and the excellent information and contributions this has been an exciting learning experience!
The weapons of these regions have always been as noted, superficially classified as 'Ottoman' or 'Balkan' at best, and it is fascinating to see the constructive observations shared here. I also admire the very courteous and professional tone of the discussion.
Thank you very much gentlemen, and especially you Teodor for opening this thread and the outstanding manner with which you presented these weapons.You opened with objective statements, and presented important data supporting them as well as your own observations on the weapons.

Nicely done

All best regards,
Jim

Rivkin · 26th March 2006, 10:31 PM

Recently I stambled onto a collection of russian articles concerning the balkan war - it seems not only there were a large number of circassians fighting on the ottoman side, but russian empire have used a very significant number of caucasian mercenaries. On the attached picture supposedly one can see osethian officers from the campaign.

TVV · 26th March 2006, 11:23 PM

I guess you mean the Russo-Turkish War of 1877-78, and not the Balkan War.

Rivkin · 27th March 2006, 01:05 AM

Yes, not 1912.

eftihis · 6th July 2007, 07:02 PM

Hi, these are photos from an exhibition of the "museum for the macedonian struggle", that is currently on public view. There are kamas used by Greek fighters, but of course there is no evidence where in Macedonia (or in what balkan teritory) they were made.

Very interesting is the shamshir style sword. Its guard has one part turning at one side and the other part on the other side, exactly the style of the guard of some of the kamas. Therefore definitely made at the same place with the same fashion.

TVV · 6th July 2007, 08:13 PM

Great photos Eftihis! It is too bad that the shmashir is in its scabbard and one cannot see the blade, but it looks shortened. Perhaps the guard is a later replacement. The variety is interesting, but to be somewhat expected when it comes to Macedonia. For example VMORO fighters bought whatever weapon they could, from cap lock rifles to Mannlichers and Enfields, and there are still specimens found in people's atticks that are so rare that one has to go to the museum of the producer to find another copy. Considering the geographic position of Macedonia and its ethnical diversity, it would only make sense that there is a diversity among the weapon forms as well.
There is an interesting mediterranean dagger on on of the photos. I think in one of Hermann Historica's catalogues a similar one is identified as from Yannina. Do you recall what its description said?
Regards,
Teodor

gp · 7th May 2020, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eftihis

Hi, these are photos from an exhibition of the "museum for the macedonian struggle", that is currently on public view. There are kamas used by Greek fighters, but of course there is no evidence where in Macedonia (or in what balkan teritory) they were made.

Very interesting is the shamshir style sword. Its guard has one part turning at one side and the other part on the other side, exactly the style of the guard of some of the kamas. Therefore definitely made at the same place with the same fashion.

Hello Eftihis, being the new kid on the block, I read some older post which interest me. So also this one...which raises a question:
did the weapons belong to Greek guerilla's on mainland Europe, Asia Minor or the ones from Crete ( as described in Captain Michalis / Ο Καπετάν Μιχάλης, the novel by Nikos Kazantzakis ? Or was there not much difference at all ?

8th August 2005, 02:28 PM	#1
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,664	Reviving this old thread, here are two qamas I recently acquired in Bulgaria. The small one to my knowledge dates back to the early 20th century, maybe even the end of the 19th century. It is of a type known as a "bachelor's qama", as it was worn by unmarried young men after they became 16. This was of course only possible after 1878, for bfore this date Christians were not allowed to carry weapons that openly. The big one is a replica, and I am posting it here only to confirm if I am right in assuming it is of a typical Turkish type, based on blade shape and scabbard decoration. It is a well made replica I bought for a little less than $50, and perhaps something to watch out for on eBay in the near future, as with the current prices for qamas and kindjals one can only wonder how long it will take for copies such as this one to turn up there, offered as authentic, of course. Attached Images

26th March 2006, 10:31 PM	#3
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	Recently I stambled onto a collection of russian articles concerning the balkan war - it seems not only there were a large number of circassians fighting on the ottoman side, but russian empire have used a very significant number of caucasian mercenaries. On the attached picture supposedly one can see osethian officers from the campaign. Attached Images

6th July 2007, 07:02 PM	#6
eftihis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chania Crete Greece Posts: 511	Photos adding to the subject Hi, these are photos from an exhibition of the "museum for the macedonian struggle", that is currently on public view. There are kamas used by Greek fighters, but of course there is no evidence where in Macedonia (or in what balkan teritory) they were made. Very interesting is the shamshir style sword. Its guard has one part turning at one side and the other part on the other side, exactly the style of the guard of some of the kamas. Therefore definitely made at the same place with the same fashion. Attached Images

8th August 2005, 05:54 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,295	Although I have nothing to add to this thread at the moment, I just wanted to say that in reviewing this thread and the excellent information and contributions this has been an exciting learning experience! The weapons of these regions have always been as noted, superficially classified as 'Ottoman' or 'Balkan' at best, and it is fascinating to see the constructive observations shared here. I also admire the very courteous and professional tone of the discussion. Thank you very much gentlemen, and especially you Teodor for opening this thread and the outstanding manner with which you presented these weapons.You opened with objective statements, and presented important data supporting them as well as your own observations on the weapons. Nicely done All best regards, Jim

26th March 2006, 11:23 PM	#4
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,664	I guess you mean the Russo-Turkish War of 1877-78, and not the Balkan War.

27th March 2006, 01:05 AM	#5
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	Yes, not 1912.

6th July 2007, 08:13 PM	#7
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,664	Great photos Eftihis! It is too bad that the shmashir is in its scabbard and one cannot see the blade, but it looks shortened. Perhaps the guard is a later replacement. The variety is interesting, but to be somewhat expected when it comes to Macedonia. For example VMORO fighters bought whatever weapon they could, from cap lock rifles to Mannlichers and Enfields, and there are still specimens found in people's atticks that are so rare that one has to go to the museum of the producer to find another copy. Considering the geographic position of Macedonia and its ethnical diversity, it would only make sense that there is a diversity among the weapon forms as well. There is an interesting mediterranean dagger on on of the photos. I think in one of Hermann Historica's catalogues a similar one is identified as from Yannina. Do you recall what its description said? Regards, Teodor