Indian sword for ID

[Jim McDougall]

Yes, that is the alternate spelling, same place. I am not certain which sculpture or frieze the author refers to, but the point is that many of these unusual shapes in blades seem derived iconographically from many of the temples and viragals from early times. There is a great deal of emphasis in the stylized character and flamboyance in many of the blade forms which while quite effective in artistic setting, was not likely practical in actual use. This is often the case when trying to understand the manner of actual use in these ancient forms, but in cases of traditional display they of course would not be required to serve other than for such ceremonial displays.

Best

Jim

[katana]

I had always thought of these as ceremonial, but a while ago I saw a similar one to the that posted. Slightly longer with a 'sickle-like' curve. The blade was heavy, fully sharpened and very business like. It was a single edged on the inside of the curve ....I wondered whether it could be used to 'hamstring' charging horses or had some other 'specialised' use

Kind Regards David

[ariel]

Thanks to all for your thoughts.
I have never believed in highly specialized functions: this one to cut horses' bridles, that one for hamstringing them, yet another for poking their eyes out from behind the corner on a moonless night.
Swords are divided mainly into stabbing and slashing, but even those can cross-function.
I am glad you saw another one like that; mine is also heavy, sharp and very business-like. I agree it is likely to be South Indian ( they always had a penchant for bizarre forms :-)). There must have been some kind of a pattern, but I guess we just do not know enough to pigeonhole it.... But this is true about a lot of other Eastern or African swords.
Please, continue offering your thoughts and suggestions. Much appreciated.

[Jim McDougall]

I think a glance into Rawson and Egerton will show this type sword corresponding to iconographic styles and most likely from Deccan to southern India, and these as I had noted seem largely in a 'revival' sense representing the flamboyant forms of historic earlier times.
Naturally, these are for visual effect and undulating or serpentine blades do not offer particularly any notable advantage in actual combative use, but most likely disadvantage in that regard. The idea of weapons for specific purpose such as 'hamstringing' etc.based on blade shapes is of course not in my opinion feasible but sounds interesting.
Weapons intended for ceremonial, processional or rituals (not necessarily sacrificial) are inclined to promote dramatic effect, and references to such weapons being held in front of participating individuals in a bearing type position suggest these kinds of purposeful display.

[katana]

Hi Jim ,
we had a interesting sword posted by Ariel a while ago.... which seemed to be specifically aimed at injurying horses and was a common tactic employed in battle.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ight=hamstring

All the best
David

[VANDOO]

HERE ARE A COUPLE ALONG THE SAME LINES. THE SPLIT TIP ON ONE MAKES IT A ZULFIKAR FORM

[ariel]

Originally Posted by VANDOO

HERE ARE A COUPLE ALONG THE SAME LINES. THE SPLIT TIP ON ONE MAKES IT A ZULFIKAR FORM

Interestingly, both have Kaudi.... Nepal, Bengal?

[DaveA]

Originally Posted by VANDOO

HERE ARE A COUPLE ALONG THE SAME LINES. THE SPLIT TIP ON ONE MAKES IT A ZULFIKAR FORM

I have recently seen a strongly recurved (I mean strongly, like an S ) zulfikar similar to these examples, with a partially (intermittently) serrated blade and tulwar-like hilt. The split blades are more separated. So sorry not to have a picture to post at this time. It was amazing to hold and I have no doubt it would be a formidable weapon if needed, but still … very odd! The dealer wants a <<cough>> $$$$ price for it and I'm tempted based on my own fascination with the type. What do my friends here on the forum have to say regarding relative scarcity of the type? Ethnographic interest and significance? Anything that is a mystery is especially interesting to me.

I thank you in advance for your comments.

Best Regards,

Dave A.

[ariel]

Originally Posted by katana

Hi Jim ,
we had a interesting sword posted by Ariel a while ago.... which seemed to be specifically aimed at injurying horses and was a common tactic employed in battle.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ight=hamstring

All the best
David

Yes, I remember it. Artzi restored it a bit and currently it is in a collection in Israel, recently published in a "private collection book". It appears to be Spanish.
Still, battle is such an intense environment, that carrying different, very heavy and unwieldy weapons for a specific task that may or may not occur .... doesn't sound like a great idea.
Remember Monty Python's How To Defend Yourself Against A Man Armed With A Banana ( cucumber, asparagus etc)?

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by katana

Hi Jim ,
we had a interesting sword posted by Ariel a while ago.... which seemed to be specifically aimed at injurying horses and was a common tactic employed in battle.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ight=hamstring

All the best
David

Hi David,
I had forgotten all about that thing! It was an anomaly to be sure, and certainly not commonly seen features on a blade for cavalry or for that matter any military purpose I can think of. While the terrible practice of deliberately incapacitating horses was certainly something done in the throes of combat, it was accomplished with conventional weapons, not specifically designed 'tools' as far as I know.

I recall when I first saw this, the curiously angled distal part of the blade and the serpentine section above it really defy all practicality toward combat use as far as I could see. Interestingly the blade profile did in degree remind me of the Nayar temple sword types as well as the earlier Barabadur type mentioned in my previous post (Rawson).

Since there seem to be at least two of these seemingly fanciful weapons, it would be interesting if anyone could present more on what these might have been intended for. Obviously the military was not likely to have weapons for the ritual type situations we are discussing, but perhaps these might have been implements for foragers, such as sickle type use to harvest fodder for the horses. It seems few references focused on cavalry attend to the more mundane aspects in campaigns, but it seems this idea for such a 'weapon'.

All the best,
Jim

[eftihis]

Hi, here is another of the "zulfikar" variation, i once had in my collection.